Raid Changes

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find the strong desire for forced rotations to be potentially troublesome.

To explain, I came from Prexus which, for good or bad, had one of the last and certainly the broadest rotation system in EQ for its time. Because the rotations were open to all guilds, they eventually ballooned to immense proportions. Guilds were having to wait over 17 weeks for VS. This caused all sorts of problems. It also gave other guilds an artificial reason to stay on the rotations. The top guilds continued to "take a number" and kill spawns uncontested to pad their guild bank. Had the rotations not been in place, the top guilds would have quickly left that content behind.

I don't remember Prexus being that bad. KTF ran the rotation. IIRC, there were maybe 4 or 5 guilds tops in the rotation when I left for FV in 2001/2002ish.

I don't recall when it happened but around 2001/2002ish Stasis decided it would no longer respect rotations and everything went to hell.

My old RL friend was Stasis' raid leader (Crucible/Chrysalid) until he left for WoW and iirc they didn't reintroduce a rotation at all during his time.

Prior to server numbers being removed I think Prexus was boasting 1.5 to 2k people during Kunark and if a rotation could be managed than I am sure it could be done with the fraction of that number on P99.

All it takes is one guild to break the rotation.

Asher

[Ele]

While these problems existed on live servers, they were inevitably delayed through the continued release of new content. The top guilds were not stuck farming Nag/Vox/CT/Inny for a year before Kunark came out. Only a very few select guilds could even get those guys on farm status before Kunark came out. Those same top guilds only had 5 months before epics dropped and 9 months before Velious released. There were no paint-by-numbers walkthroughs from day zero of each expansion release. People spent months figuring out Kunark quests, epic quests, and then Velious quests. The top guilds moved on because they had to in order to figure out the new fights and solve the new quests. This is what kept people busy. None of P99's content is going to be "new". People will know what to do and where to go from Day Zero.

Leveling on live was also much, much slower due to the much larger server populations. More people for the same amount of mobs meant fewer mobs per capita. (On my server the first three kobolds in the SolB hallway, the GIBS in LGuk, and the Upper Zone Out of Seb were all camps that supported a group of 6. Seb and KC usually had 80-100 people during peak hours. Here, KC is overcrowded with 36 people in zone.) Tons of people were not even level 60 when Velious hit further distributing the population among the different zones for leveling; and new people were continually streaming into this awesome new game "Everquest" so the lower level zones always had new people coming and going. P99 had level 60s in the second week of Kunark coming out and has caused an overcrowding issue in the end game.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Silentone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you had only seen our boards 1 week prior to our suspension, and now...its sad what a few spitful people are causing.

So why are we letting a few hurt feelings on each side of the aisle get in the way?
The whole raid ban/fraps thing seemed like a desperate attempt for some kind of communication to come across. Desperation breeds drastic action. It also breeds contempt.However, It also looks like there is now some nuggets of understanding each way. If you guys come back in a week and all of a sudden have this "we are going to completely screw everybody's fun" after the awesome open trak kill and open naggy raids, and all of that? That's the worst idea for the good of the server I have seen.

Leaders get to talking, hammer something out this week so that when TMO comes back, its not a cluster of anger and frustration at the top end. Its more of them getting to race fight kill and loot, but in a less hostile fashion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Xadion]

Rotations are stupid, any form and every form are stupid.

Velious will indeed help more so than Kunark

Classic: CT Draco Inny Maestro Phinny Vox Naggy (7) (sky?)
Kunark: VS, Trak, Gore, Tal, Sev, Fay (6) - no i am not counting VP really
Velious: too many to list... and ToV counts as it is not keyed like VP so its open to all.

Velious is a raid expansion and will shift the raid scene a lot more than going from classic to kunark did- also kunark did not total replace classic- velious replaced 90% of all slots for all classes- as in kunark you still wanted planar armor and sky stuff etc

And you cant expect to trap a snake in a bag, shake it up and then when it comes out expect it to give you a kiss and move along....

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't remember Prexus being that bad. KTF ran the rotation. IIRC, there were maybe 4 or 5 guilds tops in the rotation when I left for FV in 2001/2002ish.

I don't recall when it happened but around 2001/2002ish Stasis decided it would no longer respect rotations and everything went to hell.

My old RL friend was Stasis' raid leader (Crucible/Chrysalid) until he left for WoW and iirc they didn't reintroduce a rotation at all during his time.

Prior to server numbers being removed I think Prexus was boasting 1.5 to 2k people during Kunark and if a rotation could be managed than I am sure it could be done with the fraction of that number on P99.

All it takes is one guild to break the rotation.

Asher

This is somewhat of a tangent.

I was Frieza and I was an officer in Stasis during the time the rotations were broken. They were very well organized. They were not small. Stasis had originally intended (READ: Axiss and Myself) to open a discussion and issue an ultimatum that in 2-3 weeks any mob with over 4-5 guilds on the rotation would be formally disregarded by Stasis. Instead, Nasir jumped the gun and just did it (without consent of the officer base).

It was, frankly, stupid to wait over 17 weeks to kill VS. Rotations are very workable when they're small. Beyond that, it is unworkable and completely unfair to those who can devote more than a modicum of time to the mob. The very casuals can still see the high end content when the higher guilds move on.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you cant expect to trap a snake in a bag, shake it up and then when it comes out expect it to give you a kiss and move along....

So when you come back, and we are raiding, and one of you guys are in the zone. We have to fraps the entire thing? You guys are going to "lock down the server" because you got caught doing something wrong? Grow up, let people with cooler heads come to a better judgement than these baiting comments.

I love this server. I consider myself "hard core"...but i have a wife and kid. If I can't log in and enjoy myself, EZ server, PEQ, EQMAC, Hiddenforest(whatever), WOW, SWTOR, RIFT, EQLIVE(people begging me to play there), EVE, Pirates of the carribean mmo, Hello Kittys tropical Island, Mass Effect 3, Kingdoms of Alamaur, and Batman Arkham City can occupy my time. Everybody else can start to see the same, and then you guys are going to be Kings and Queens of the ether. Dicks now = nothing later.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is somewhat of a tangent.

I was Frieza and I was an officer in Stasis during the time the rotations were broken. They were very well organized. They were not small. Stasis had originally intended (READ: Axiss and Myself) to open a discussion and issue an ultimatum that in 2-3 weeks any mob with over 4-5 guilds on the rotation would be formally disregarded by Stasis. Instead, Nasir jumped the gun and just did it (without consent of the officer base).

It was, frankly, stupid to wait over 17 weeks to kill VS. Rotations are very workable when they're small. Beyond that, it is unworkable and completely unfair to those who can devote more than a modicum of time to the mob. The very casuals can still see the high end content when the higher guilds move on.

My main point was that I don't recall it being anywhere near 17 weeks. I was in Souls of Mir and we raided some targets with NO at the time. Mobs spawn every 7 days? 4 or 5 guilds means 4 or 5 weeks per target assuming all guilds were capable of killing the target. KTF only let people in on the rotation on the mob if they could demonstrate that they were capable of killing it.

How are you arriving at this 17 week number?

Asher

[Xadion]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So when you come back, and we are raiding, and one of you guys are in the zone. We have to fraps the entire thing? You guys are going to "lock down the server" because you got caught doing something wrong? Grow up, let people with cooler heads come to a better judgement than these baiting comments.

I love this server. I consider myself "hard core"...but i have a wife and kid. If I can't log in and enjoy myself, EZ server, PEQ, EQMAC, Hiddenforest(whatever), WOW, SWTOR, RIFT, EQLIVE(people begging me to play there), EVE, Pirates of the carribean mmo, Hello Kittys tropical Island, Mass Effect 3, Kingdoms of Alamaur, and Batman Arkham City can occupy my time. Everybody else can start to see the same, and then you guys are going to be Kings and Queens of the ether. Dicks now = nothing later.

Enjoy those other games- as everyone seems to want to turn Classic EQ into pussyfoot eq with mob and item welfare.

And indeed fraps everything, I know we will- you act like other guilds don't pull shady shit lol - I have been around on this server too long to be so ignorant nor believe the claims of innocence.

And I am just saying - you took the most hard core (in general) people of the server- caged them up for two weeks- then expect them not to be tripping hard for some raids?

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I am just saying - you took the most hard core (in general) people of the server- caged them up for two weeks- then expect them not to be tripping hard for some raids?

There's a large difference between "We can't wait to get back to raiding" and "You've angered us and we're a big mean snake who want to bite."

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enjoy those other games- as everyone seems to want to turn Classic EQ into pussyfoot eq with mob and item welfare.

And indeed fraps everything, I know we will- you act like other guilds don't pull shady shit lol - I have been around on this server too long to be so ignorant nor believe the claims of innocence.

And I am just saying - you took the most hard core (in general) people of the server- caged them up for two weeks- then expect them not to be tripping hard for some raids?

People just want the time and effort vs reward to what is similar on classic live.