Necromancers "are terrible in groups"

[Troxx]

I had an interesting discussion with a very opinionated individual today who was quite adamant just how awful necromancers are in a group. Other's spell damage was turned off - not capturing really any of the functional input from the druids. Not the ideal group, but we were pulling non-stop and holding down hands/warlord and anything else we could find that was actually up with ease. I was the primary healer freeing up the druids to do whatever else with the occasional spot heal. Total necromancer healing: 18,250 (> 90% of all non-regeneration based healing required). Extra mana tossed around as needed and roots and ghetto mez helped the bard keep our asses safe.

Combined: *Stuff* 3/22/2017 in 1536sec

Total
--- DMG: 185295 (100%) @ 121 dps (121 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 43748 @29dps

Lasarer (Daegun)
--- DMG: 63436 (34.24%) @ 41 dps (41 sdps)
------ Total: 0
--- DMG to PC: 2293 @2dps

Rogue_01
--- DMG: 60162 (32.47%) @ 39 dps (39 sdps)
------ Total: 60162 -- Pierce: 29676 -- Backstab: 16027 -- Slash: 14459
--- DMG to PC: 2028 @2dps

Daegun
--- DMG: 28431 (15.34%) @ 19 dps (19 sdps)
------ Total: 28431 -- DoT: 21642 -- Hit: 6730 -- Crush: 59
------ Total: 63436 -- Pierce: 49391 -- Backstab: 14045
--- DMG to PC: 1118 @1dps

Warrior_01
--- DMG: 22730 (12.27%) @ 26 dps (15 sdps)
------ Total: 22730 -- Slash: 15774 -- Crush: 6576 -- Kick: 351 -- Hit: 29
--- DMG to PC: 17368 @20dps

Paladin_01 (later replaced by warrior)
--- DMG: 9258 (5%) @ 14 dps (6 sdps)
------ Total: 9258 -- Slash: 9062 -- Bash: 196
--- DMG to PC: 15416 @24dps

Bard_01 (out pulling and handling haste/cc/regen)
--- DMG: 1270 (0.69%) @ 3 dps (1 sdps)
------ Total: 1270 -- Slash: 889 -- Crush: 381
--- DMG to PC: 3431 @2dps

Druid_01
--- DMG: 8 (0%) @ 0 dps (0 sdps)
------ Total: 8 -- Crush: 8
--- DMG to PC: 1154 @5dps

Druid_02
--- DMG to PC: 940 @1dps


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Melee had bard haste for a fair portion of fights but assuming they didn't ever have it (benefit of the doubt) - adjusting each from worn haste alone to having 70% enchanter haste on top of their worn hastes:

Rog 41% to haste cap: 40.75 melee + 17.738 backstab = 58.48 dps
Warrior 21% to 91%: 41 dps
Paladin 21% to 91%: 22.1 dps

Rogue was, of course, having to throttle back on dps while warrior was tanking.

Necromancer + pet with mobs dying too fast to really capitalize on dots still churned out 60dps while primary healing and providing CC.

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The day before my charmed/hasted/quadding "Decaying prisoner" bounced around between 75-110dps with an average right around 85, just over double the summoned pet.

[bum3]

I was told this exact same thing last night by a long time p99 veteran. I mained necro on live, release to PoP, and knew better. Parses don't take in any account of helping ench mez, mana feed, or helping off-heal. Thanks for providing data. I wasn't aware you could use parsers on p99. Which one do you use?

[Troxx]

Gamparse is the one I use. It's far from perfect but it gets the job done.

[Teppler]

It's kind of a newbie statement to make.

If you know what the necro class is capable you know they are not only a good group class but one of the best.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's kind of a newbie statement to make.

If you know what the necro class is capable you know they are not only a good group class but one of the best.

Considering the person making the statement was a guild-tagged alt of one of the big 2 on the server and sporting velious raid gear on a low 50s melee - and claimed to have 5-6 level 60s all decked out ...

You'd be surprised just how commonly held this belief is.

[feanan]

It's because the number of lazy and/or shitty necros is way greater than people like yourself.

Same as the bard just playing regen and meleeing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't' until you see a well played necro/bard by someone who isn't lazy that you realize how incredible they are.

[Teppler]

More efficient nuker than druid, mage and wizard with the help of lich
Snare
Heals
Mez
Root
Charmed pets that outdps twinked rogues

From a group perspective what else am I missing?

[Sage Truthbearer]

Originally Posted by feanan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's because the number of lazy and/or shitty necros is way greater than people like yourself.

Same as the bard just playing regen and meleeing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't' until you see a well played necro/bard by someone who isn't lazy that you realize how incredible they are.

This is true but I think it's also because people think "Wow, Necromancers are so good at soloing" therefore "they must be terrible in groups."

[Feanol]

They can mezz, they can off-tank with pets, they can heal, they can heal themselves, they can root, they can charm, they can supply manna, they can split pull undead, they can ressurect, they can...

Necromancers are somehow simultaneously the best groupmate and the best solo'er far as I can tell.

Disclaimer: I have never played a Necro and have zero personal bias.

[Jimjam]

I can only assume these people are saying "necromancers are terrible in groups" as a comment on player skill, rather than the function of a necromancer in group.

Many times, adding a necromancer is just like adding a low grade magician.

A competent group necromancer, such as draegun, is a good group asset.

Teppler you are missing corpse recovery/group resets. FD + Rez can get the xp train back on the tracks effectively!