A history of (the lack of) VP

[baub]

A restart of p99 when r99 launches would make patching both the servers extremely easy and convenient right?

Just throwing it out there!

[visage]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're 6 months and 17 days since the launch of kunark, and 1 month since the last word from a GM on why the pinnacle zone of the expansion has not been released. It's time to take a look at the timeline of the zone to try and convey the frustration regarding why it hasn't been released.

- Nilbog started working earnestly on VP in february. Here's a thread asking for help / input:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27566

- It was not included with Kunark release because it was not ready yet, and it was silly to delay kunark for a zone that couldn't be used or even accessed for at least a month after launch. Perfectly reasonable.

- Around the time we expected it to be released, tornados took out nilbog and the development server. Development continued to a limited degree on the live server in small measure. We know, for instance, that uthgaard was getting epic mobs set up. When tracking for naggy one day, I caught him spawning Zordak Ragefire. With epics being worked on, how far away could VP be? There should be a significant gap between VP and epics because epics trivialize a huge chunk of VP loot. Why would you be working on epics if VP wasn't done or basically done?

- On 8/2, after the development server had been back up for a while, uthgaard made a post ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...4&postcount=23 ) stating that both the hole and VP were done. Both guilds numbers swelled, and heads started bumping like crazy as guilds were on high alert for an opening every weekend. We were told they were just working out an event to open them. A hole event is absolutely classic (an artifact should have been handed out), but a VP event isn't. Regardless, we were all happy VP was shortly to come.

- After over a month of peak numbers for both TR and TMO causing raid dispute after raid dispute, on 9/10, Rogean said that the high end guilds didn't deserve any new content and thus VP would not be opening. Also, the hole (a high level dungeon with a small raid encounter) was opened contradictory to that first point and without its event they didn't have time to do because of other pressing matters (presumably the account suspension / anti hacking stuff and Red99). Well... Hobby had already said 2 weeks before that that he had written the hole opening script / event ( http://www.fohguild.org/forums/2122365-post3213.html ) and that VP wasn't done.

- Rogean told us privately the day of the patch to come to an agreement regarding VP. Both sides made concessions and we presented a plan for a modified, time-limited rotation to rogean that same weekend. It was basically instantly rejected and we were told Nilbog wanted to talk to us about it. The compromise gave ZERO weight to the fact that TR had a raid force capable of probably clearing VP months before anyone else even killed Trakanon. As much as this pissed off my own guild, who understandably felt we should have first crack at the zone since we were fully keyed first, we thought getting any sort of plan out there in hopes of the zone opening was better than nothing.

That was over 4 weeks ago. PMs to both senior staff have gone unanswered since then. An entire server has been launched and 2 patches have been made to P99 since then, so it's not a matter of them not being around, it's a conscious decision to not release. Maybe it's not actually done still. Maybe they know a lot of people will quit beta testing R99 if they have stuff to raid again on P99. Maybe its still "punishment" and the effect it would have on the server as a whole wasn't considered. Maybe they don't think ignoring P99 and deviating from a classic timeline it will have a material adverse effect and would rather play with R99 concepts instead. I don't know. I try not to assign motive, so maybe there's another reason entirely I haven't considered.

Again, it is their server and we play here for free, but it gets super depressing seeing the population drop every night and hearing people talk about not having the motivation to do the same things over and over again who quit holding out hope that the zone we worked so hard to be ready for is coming any time soon. People in smaller raiding guilds who were hoping to be able to get more shots at raid mobs when we had moved our focus to VP are stuck in a bad spot as well.

Either way, the classic VP experience will be harder and harder to recreate here for either guild every week the zone gets delayed. Venturing into the zone for the first time with only 2-3 groups, testing yourself against a dragon that hits for 1k and seeing what classes you needed to get keys to next trakanon was a blast and a formative experience in classic EQ for me. Those memories were some of the most fond ones that drew me to this server in the first place.

Rogean, Nilbog: We know you don't owe us anything. You already provide hours upon hours of entertainment to hundreds, if not thousands, of players every week, for free. No one is more aware of this. However, you can't read the timeline from the perspective of a player and not understand that a lot of us think it doesn't really add up. Any sort of status update or response would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, TL;DR. Please keep guild on guild drama in RNF, this is an attempt to find out the real status of VP, something important to more than just 1 or 2 guilds.

Problem solved. Glad you know , now we know you know. You know?

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are some absolutely debilitating bugs in R99 right now.

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

interfering with your ability to beta test?

^ lolol

[fishingme]

All i can think about is maybe if the top two raiding guilds weren't fuckheads to eachother and possibly other guilds(if that happened) then maybe VP would all ready be released by now. Just because you've worked out a compromise for the time being, that doesn't mean shit won't hit the fan later on.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

interfering with your ability to beta test?

Well if my level 7 rogue is permacamped by a level 24 druid without guards protecting me, I would say yes. That's two obviously debilitating bugs.

[Enygma]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had talked to nilbog about the raiding clusterfuck. Showed him the treatise Jeremy wrote in the petition forum on why no one likes the poopsock clause in the rules, summarized the 3 hour long discussion between Zeelot and Kinsawt, explained why things are different now than at server launch, with the encounter logs, and he agreed. Once rogean got in on the conversation, he started arguing why they should stay, and nilbog's tune changed, despite all raiding guilds on p99 preferring FTE.
Raiding guilds shouldn't be forced to agree to some sort of rotation to get content released. The entire purpose of raiding is competition. It's like telling all of the baseball teams they've got to agree to take turns letting each other win because all the umpires that showed up to work quit due to the management.
A person can be reasonable, intelligent, or responsible. People cannot. People are a product of who is directly responsible for them. Even before I left, I acknowledged the raiding clusterfuck, but never once did I say, what do the players need to do differently. I said what we could have done to change the behavior of the players. The players will react predictably within a set of rules and under a given influence. No amount of hokey campfire singalongs with the guild leadership will change basic behaviorism.
Poor quality of guild competition is symptomatic for the staff, not the players. You can't individually coach a mob out of mob mentality and achieve tangible long term results.

WTB UTHGAARD BACK!! He actually gave a shit about the server and its integrity!

Uthgaard for Pres. of P99.

Sworen

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by fishingme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All i can think about is maybe if the top two raiding guilds weren't fuckheads to eachother and possibly other guilds(if that happened) then maybe VP would all ready be released by now. Just because you've worked out a compromise for the time being, that doesn't mean shit won't hit the fan later on.

That can always happen, no matter what we, or they, come up with.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Poor quality of guild competition is symptomatic for the staff, not the players. You can't individually coach a mob out of mob mentality and achieve tangible long term results.

I hate how much it sounds like players passing the buck, but I really do think that this hits at a lot of truth.

I have to wonder, though, to what extent that classic mechanics that P99 is invariably saddled with can actually be stretched to accommodate a better raiding solution.

[Shiftin]

Nilbog is a fan of competition. Competition, especially in an MMO, even more especially at the high end, breeds conflict. Conflict without any rules or enforcement becomes chaos. This is not new or groundbreaking, and it's one of the reasons instancing exists. This server is a case study in that principle and it's what Uthgaard was talking about yesterday.

As soon as the server broke 500 people, there should never have been any doubt that the end game would become overcrowded. It's a certainty in a server where the content is released slower than live due to volunteer development and there is a tremendous information advantage available over the time frame the server attempts to emulate. From that point on, it should never have been a surprise that conflict would ensue. Doing so ignores pretty basic gamer sociology with 12 years of MMO history laid open as a textbook full of proof.

Punishing a large chunk of the active playerbase (if that's the real reason VP is not out) due to something that was inevitable is counterintuitive. We want to know if that's the real reason, and if it is, what is realistically expected of us.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That can always happen, no matter what we, or they, come up with.

My point was that maybe the guilds shouldn't have fucked with each other so much and brought their shit to the forums/made GMs deal with it.