OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Seltius]

Originally Posted by Morbo the Annihilator [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Translation:
In order to move forward, all guilds should adopt the raiding strategies that sent the raid scene spiralling down the toilet in the first place.


Currently, the only avenue that a guild must take in order to see a raid boss is to track through excessive spawn windows and have an army camped nearby.
It has been determined by GMs and a majority of raiders that this should not be the only avenue for seeing a raid target.

So other avenues must be considered.

Splitting each month into a 50% rotation/50% FFA seems like a popular option for a lot of people, though it's still considered to be charity by those who are willing to spend their lives tracking it in a FFA setting.

What if the Rotation in the first 15-days of the month only offered each guild a 20-minute grace period before going into FFA, rather than 8 hours (which IMO is excessive).
That way, guilds aren't taking all of their rotation mobs for granted. They still have to track and mobilise as fast as usual, but they just have 20 minutes of no interruptions in order to get to their raid boss.
If they wipe or fail to engage within 20 minutes, their mob becomes FFA.

Then im lost on what is considered toxic on this server. Since I started playing I have heard how toxic the raid scene is but when someone is asked they can never explain what they mean. Is toxic having alts or is it the training in VP that was allowed or is it the training and ksing etc. that was "accidentally" happening between the "hardcore" raiding guilds on things like Trak and VS? Or maybe how they actually had to put FTE in because otherwise guilds will try to steal targets from each other. Perfect example was Nobles how many guilds would sit there and wait for the spawn to see if they could be the one lucky enough to hit it first and get FTE? Please explain as I was attempting to at least understand to an extent what the issue is instead of attacking others over their ideas.

I'm glad your offering ideas but so was I. Oh and I'm actually pretty clueless about how bad the server has been for 2 years. For the most part I have tried to play nice and stay out of the guild politics. I chat and joke with everyone no matter tag ask Taselhof(sp? sorry man I cant remember your an Jeremy's alts spellings of name) I would talk with him in KC or Seb or even VP while there.

I feel that the brainstorming here is an alternative to the hate that has been going on here so heavily even if our ideas aren't discussed by or respective representatives. So I wont bash your ideas and feel free not to bash mine if you would like to try to improve on them then go ahead I wont be offended. But the point of my post stands. The GMs gave us the start of a way to raid less toxic start with that and build from there.

[AenarieFenninRo]

I have not weighed in on this at all up until this point but I thought I would finally throw my hat into the ring because we seem to get lost in all sorts of minutiae that causes all manner of hate and vitriol between those that are "casual" and those that are "hardcore"

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I as a "hardcore" raider, made a choice to join TMO because I wanted to compete for a raid target. I am 100% against any type of rotation, I think its complete care-bear bullshit. I also do not think that (rotations) are what Rogean had in mind when he made the sweeping statements about the raid scene, I could be wrong, but that is my own perception.

What I believe Rogean desired with his statement about the raid scene was that (1) the GMs didn't want to have to deal with raid disputes every time a raid mob spawned, and (2) smaller guilds never getting a chance to fight a raid mob. I don't think Rogean's statement means everyone should be equal and i don't want any more competition on my server (thats what a rotation is).

Part #2 meant that the "hardcore" guilds needed to give up some mobs.

This plan does that. It means that everyone gets to have their mobs because the "hardcore" guilds are backing off of them.

Explanation:

If a small guild tried to compete with the "hardcore" guilds right now, they would have been slaughtered, which means that the small guilds did NOT compete, and thus very rarely got any raid mobs.

The proposal outlined above ensures that the "casuals" wont have to deal with fighting against the "hardcore" that are TMO or FE/IB (or any future "hardcore" guild).

However the "casuals" want to deal with their raiding situations, they're allowed to do so. If they want a rotation, a fight amongst each other for FTE, whatever... they don't have to deal with it, and there are raid mobs for them to do it on.

IF they want to enter the ring with the "hardcore" guilds, they're more than welcome to do so, at any time, and step away from it if they don't like it, at any time. Even if they never decide to step into the ring with the "top" guilds, they STILL GET MOBS! This plan allows for the switching back and forth


Part #1 which still involves competition at the "hardcore" level - Not related to you "casual scum" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] at this time

This plan also does that by instituting a "guild council" for us to discuss issues on a neutral basis without GM involvement unless absolutely necessary.

Explanation:

I will be completely honest here and make a blanket statement that I don't think anyone will dispute. Raiding lately has NOT been the most enjoyable situation for either TMO or FE/IB. The competition side of it has been AWESOME, but the petition and fraps questing have not. I don't know that anyone was getting their rocks off on having to deal with petition/fraps questing after every... single... raid (maybe it was for some people but i doubt the majority). If you added additional raid forces to the competition, it would have only gotten worse.

I'm not going to throw the raid forces under the bus here by saying who did what (go to R&F for that), but there were instances of one guild or another having FTE and and an opposing guild doing something dumb or disruptive. There have been DA stalls, there has been snipe-questing... you name it, all within the letter of the law as it has been previously outlined.

So what happened when someone did something wrong? We bitched and complained about it, if you feel wronged that is what you do until you get some restitution. Some of those decisions went to one guild, some to the other. People didn't like it when it didn't go their way.

That has been the nature of the raid scene lately, on EVERY... SINGLE... ENCOUNTER, it was less about what you did right, and trying to find the flaw in what your opponent did wrong.

That is what has been broken since the beginning of the server, that is what needed to be fixed (beyond the scarcity of mobs for the "casuals").

We as the "hardcore" guilds need to find the best way to make this happen. This also means that when another guild enters the "hardcore" raid scene we need to find a way to involve them in whatever the decision may be.

The Raid Council suggestion that is part of this proposal moves us toward this. Is it enough? Only time will tell, maybe there needs to be additional rules we set along the way to make it all work. As that is defined going forward, we need to post those rules for EVERYONE on the server to see so they know what they're getting into when joining the "hardcore" raid scene.

TL;DR:
- Let the "hardcore" raiders decide the "hardcore rules"
- Let the "casuals" decide the "casual casual" rules
- This plan allows for both to happen because there are enough mobs for everyone in either category

Additional There have been mention about moving mobs from primary / secondary, moving from "casual" to "hardcore" and back to "casual", and # of days that need to be hashed but I think that those should be the only real sticking points here between the "hardcore" and "casual" players.