#1
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Mobs too buff.
Correct me if I am wrong but in classic mobs tripled not quadded more. I have run into this before with sky mobs doing more dps then they did in classic quadding every time with extra attacks or procs, they just are more difficult. Innoruuk tripled 400 with a bash. I remember mobs did not quad until what Vindi, Idol and AoW? I remember the insane hp velious mobs had, and the quadding thing, the ch chain coming into existence. If for some unknown p99 reason mobs are quadding to make it harder then they shouldn't be doing it every single round. They should be making their checks for double attack also or dual wield or whatever just like players, not quadding automatically every round.
But the bottom line is these mobs should be not be doing this amount of dps. One could say the Avatar of War was the father of the ch chain. Necessity dictated that the ch chain come into existence because you couldn't kill him without. No one went into sky in kunark with a 7 cleric ch chain. To use the final bixie Bazzt Zzzt as an example. If she quads 860 with a kick, poison dot proc and draco dot aoe you are needing 6 minimum clerics for a ch chain if you tried a straight tank n spank. I'm not even factoring in ac not helping mitigate correctly or perhaps I should say as it did on live. I remember the AoW chain being what 7ish clerics? Maybe more? Granted Velious added armor and options for guilds, made em stronger but as it stands now on this server you need a 7 cleric ch chain, more to be safe on a 60 warrior with defensive to keep up heals on Bazzt zzzt. That is essentially having heals to cover the same dps as you did for the AoW since we were all still 60. And guilds on live weren't using a ch chain like that back then because the ch chain came into existence to deal with the insane dps and omg hp mobs had in velious. I don't want the player remarks on "other guilds killed the bixie" or give me stories about riposte disc chain (that we used for VS on live) or mage pet armies or 80 man raids for the bixie. The fact remains these mobs dps should not be as much as they are, its near AoW level. Ac mitigated more on live, abilities such as dodge block worked better (I can show u ss of me fighting KoS through enrage and the abilities firing) plus the mobs here get extra attacks and hit for more. Bazzt zzt should not be a 7 cleric ch chain when you fight her like AoW. No way in hell.
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Last edited by h0tr0d (shaere); 09-17-2011 at 04:28 PM..
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#2
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Comparing Bazzt Zzzt's DPS with the Avatar of War is just silly. Those two are not even close. The tactic of using a CH chain to make up for round damage was used long before AoW.
Assuming both Quad: Avatar of War - 1154 + Flurry = 9232 + kick/bash possible per round Bazzt Zzzt - 860 = 3440 + kick/bash possible per round You should be able to keep a 60 Warrior with Defensive up on Bazzt Zzzt no problem even if he quads with four or five clerics. It Bazzt max hit EVERY time it would still take her 3+ rounds to kill the tank. Difficulty seems pretty close to classic from what I can remember, Plane of Sky was pretty fucking brutal. Heal better I guess? I don't know. | ||
#3
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That's not really the point of his post. I do seem to remember that quadding came in with Velious, and Vindi was most people's first experience with it.
Lots of mobs quad here, including in the lower level. It seems that any mob coded as the monk class can quad, like war boned skeletons, skeletal monk and such. It makes them absurdly powerful for their level. I don't remember that being the case, and while I don't specifically remember that it wasn't, I'm skeptical that a level 20 skeleton should be able to one-round for 4x 50 and a 35 damage Tiger Strike or whatever. | ||
#4
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I would have to agree that mobs such as skeletal monks are ridiculously strong for their level. I don't remember it being that way in classic, but I don't have any hard evidence to support that fact.
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[60 Bard] Pescador (Half Elf) <Rustle>
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#5
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Treats that is exactly my point. You cannot keep up a 60 warrior with defensive with 4 or 5 clerics. She can effectively two round that 60 warrior. It isn't exact but it doesn't take 2 rounds and that that tank is toast. You hit the nail on the head when you said this
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I understand tanks were a little beefier in Velious. But they didn't go from 5k hp to 10k. There is no way you should need a 7 cleric chain to keep up a 60 war with defensive on Bazzt Zzzt. She was not the AoW of kunark era. I appreciate Pescador's ignorant attempt at sarcasm but all you hear from those people is no ss no proof. Unfortunately I didn't play classic anticipating project1999 and a 3rd grader response when those of us who actually played back then and fought these mobs say "It wasn't like that". I am not sure what the deal is but it is not classic or near. If they were buffed specifically to prevent someone from killing them because it was felt they were 'too easy' that is ridiculous. We didn't need 60 man raids in sky with a 7 cleric chain for a tank on Bazzt Zzzt. My comparison to AoW was not that the dps was the same because it wasn't. My point was that if you used a 7 cleric chain for AoW on live and have to use a 7 cleric chain here then that is too much dps for Bazzt ZZt for example. Effectively if you use a 7 cleric chain for 2 mobs then the dps from them must be around the same, no? I have had this issue before and posted about it with different mobs. The Spiroc Lord having stonespider stun here, yet the Spiroc Guardian does not death touch.
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Last edited by h0tr0d (shaere); 11-18-2011 at 11:16 PM..
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#6
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Here is a thread from 2001 Velious era:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5488 Quote:
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Suppose you could take a time machine into the Kael arena to fight The Avatar of War with the same raid force/gear. They would get absolutely flattened. He would decimate the entire raid force in a matter of seconds with a 7 cleric CH chain. The Avatar of War was not even killed on live with an actual PC tanking until a few days before Luclin was released if I remember right. This was only even possible after MONTHS of farming in Temple of Veeshan. He was killed prior to this, but that was using "The Frozen Moses." | ||||
Last edited by Treats; 09-17-2011 at 07:03 PM..
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#7
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#8
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Yeah read the part where they say the hand doesn't leave the isle any more. And how outdated the Eye rewards are. And the fact the Hand is quadding 850 and all that. HERE the OOA is that tough. Remember the live timeline. Mar? 99 eq goes live. Kunark is about a year at apr 2000. Velious was Dec 2000. Luclin dec 2001. I fought and killed Bazzt Zzzt in kunark, pre server splits on Tunare. We had the normal Tunare PUG crew raiding sky on weekends all through Kunark. We didn't port pull we didn't mez mobs we didn't ch chain or riposte disc chain people. It wasn't needed. Heck we didn't go up with 60. I remember we would port up aggro all up the Spirocs at once. Chaos ensue but we would handle it. Most of the healing was done just assist heal or spam heal we never used a ch chain. It wasn't something used in game yet it hadn't been 'discovered'. There is a picture floating out there of FoH fighting her pre kunark.
The fact that post is Aug 2001 puts it what, 8 months after Velious release? On this server the OOA is what the Hand was on live I think. The OOA max should be what, 750 according to some sites yet some say 500 which makes sense because Dojorn is 300, ooa being 500 and hand being 750 makes sense. Notice how they also said nothing about the spiroc lord stone spider stunning. The mobs here look to have been made harder well I'll you speculate why. You didn't need a 7 cleric chain in game until you got into kael for those final fights. There is absolutely no way you can believe that. They also say she depops in 60 min and is lvl 65. She was 63, 80 min depop. The spirocs they say hit for 300? When their max should be 200 with vanquishers and the guardian being 250. The lord was 350. Here you need to defensive to get the Lord at 350. Anyway there is alot of information out there that conradicts each other and I didn't have fraps and parses running to have the information for this day. We can debate and argue all we want about details but I think the fact you need a 7 cleric chain to heal for Bazzt Zzzt shows you she is too OP. Find me any guild that used a 7 cleric chain on her in kunark. But that post doesn't settle anything I can link you posts with all the information that I listed.
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Last edited by h0tr0d (shaere); 09-17-2011 at 09:43 PM..
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#9
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Heck the wingblade drop wasn't increased until 04/19/2006.
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#10
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Well many months may be an exaggeration by the poster. But with Velious being dec 2000 and Luclin 2001 that is only 12 months. No guild killed AoW 'many months' before Luclin maybe a few but not 'many'.
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