Spells: Cinda's Charismatic Carillon

[xblade724]

Originally Posted by worch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. It should be fixed given the presented evidence. My point is it already significantly raises faction standing, and if the fix simply adds the instrument mod on top of the current song's effectiveness, it would be too powerful. You could increase faction standing from max scowling up to warmly. That'd not be in line with EQSongs:

So the evidence is there - but what you are saying, you are deciding if it follows the instrument mod, or a different value? From your quote link alone, it shows that a better instrument means better faction, so it's not a fixed #, much like instruments can have different values.

It certainly won't go from max scowl to warmly ... even in it's current state, my bard goes from threateningly to.... threateningly, in Skyshrine. Even I had a magic drum, about 2.2x more, that would only make it 1 more faction higher, which sounds very appropriate.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by Roufas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, that is actually intended.

People must understand the faction is a point thing that goes from -3k points to +3k points.

More or less:
-3000 to -1999 - lowest faction points
-2000 to -751 - Scowls at you ready to attack! (KOS) (approx. 1300 point range)
-750 to -501 - Glares are you threateningly! (KOS) (approx. 250 point range)
-500 to -101 - Glowers at you dubiously. (Not KOS but very close to) (approx. 400 point range)
-100 to -1 - Looks your way apprehensively. (approx. 100 point range)
0 to +99 - Regards you indifferently. (The majority of NPC's have this neutral standing with you) (approx. 100 point range)
+100 to +499 - Judges you amiably. (approx. 400 point range)
+500 to +749 - Kindly considers you. (approx. 250 point range)
+750 to +1099 - Looks upon you warmly. (approx. 450 point range)
+1100 to +2000 - Regards you as an ally. (Highest level of faction attainable) (approx. 1000 point range)
+2001 to +3000 - highest faction points

Taken from another friend's thread.

Basically this song won't move your standing up but it will boost the points, there is a huge chasm between full kos and dubious though.

Even when the song is fixed to let instruments work on them from full kos you would still be kos while playing it, but we never start full kos to any faction so people may have this confusion.

No. these numbers are catastrophically wrong. Find one of my old posts explaining faction.

[Roufas]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. these numbers are catastrophically wrong. Find one of my old posts explaining faction.

I would very much appreciate a copy paste of it and/or a link.

Anyways I didn't check number by number but could see they are not exactly like that in P99, as another poster said.

The main topic still being faction song not working as intended right now of course.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by Roufas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would very much appreciate a copy paste of it and/or a link.

Anyways I didn't check number by number but could see they are not exactly like that in P99, as another poster said.

The main topic still being faction song not working as intended right now of course.

Actually when I did a search I found my response to this very topic.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?p=488653

Basically it's not bugged.

[BardPop]

Hey there Uthgaard, your reference on faction tables for r99 is interesting in itself, but the song is bugged as our multiple reference) in the first few pages indicate+ our player memories indicate.

Also in regard to your old post, you are incorrect on this point: "the gaps between the faction levels make it impossible for any instrument modifier in the game to cause the song to raise by more than one faction level "

I routinely raise up by more then one level on my lv 60 with the song not being modified at all, the reason is the amount of faction given by the song scales by level and at 60 is enough to jump from threat to apprehensive, dubious to indifferent, or any other 2 level jump if your faction is in the right spot.

If you have ever played a bard so I will also say that it is extremely easy to test the difference between a moded song and unmodded song, especially since faction levels can be adjusted by manual faction work. With the highest wind mods (2.4) available it should be easier to see the two point jump then it currently is now and should be possible to three point jump up from amiable to ally like rufas is remembering, that's the main bug we were discussing not the fact that faction levels posted by roufas might have been for live eq and not p99

Regarding your post Worch I believe you specifically noted that the "racial mod" caused an additional jump which is what got you apprehensive faction from max scowling. Are you referring to dark elf mask and/or other illusion clicks that can be used for various old world factions? Because I know for a fact you can't get apphrensive from max scowling without an illusion click from your base race. That being said proclaiming the song is "to powerful" because it can be used in conjunction with an illusion just seems ridiculous. Post your faction results with no illusion, if you can break threateningly from max kos I'll be impressed.

[worch]

Originally Posted by BardPop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regarding your post Worch I believe you specifically noted that the "racial mod" caused an additional jump which is what got you apprehensive faction from max scowling. Are you referring to dark elf mask and/or other illusion clicks that can be used for various old world factions? Because I know for a fact you can't get apphrensive from max scowling without an illusion click from your base race. That being said proclaiming the song is "to powerful" because it can be used in conjunction with an illusion just seems ridiculous. Post your faction results with no illusion, if you can break threateningly from max kos I'll be impressed.

Before (Max scowling Venril Sathir faction from hunting in howling stones. Race is DE due to mask.) and after (apprehensive) are below. Each race (and class & religion for that matter) is a modifier placed on top of the base value. There is an old post where a p99 dev explains how these mods work iirc. Changing your race doesn't change the base value of the faction -- it just uses a different faction-specific racial modifier (e.g. -500 for HE to +500 for DE, or whatever the actual values are for the Venril Sathir faction group).

[Tue Apr 28 04:48:28 2015] a cliff golem scowls at you, ready to attack -- it appears to be quite formidable.
[Tue Apr 28 04:48:30 2015] a cliff golem looks your way apprehensively -- it appears to be quite formidable.

As a half elf, the song improves faction from max scowling -> threateningly.

an undead foreman glares at you threateningly -- it appears to be quite formidable.

My point is that the dev making this fix should be cautious of overpowering the song. If we can make this song 2.5x stronger than it currently is, that is too powerful, given that the evidence presented said this song raises the faction 0 to 2 ranks.

[BardPop]

How is that to powerful? Without your "racial mod" of the dark elf mask to fix your ot faction you only raised it up to threateningly like I remembered you would, racial mods are not unique to bards by any means and can be used by anyone, and we should also note that none of the easy illusion mask items work in velious for raising faction with the quest npcs there. The dwarves, giants, and dragons do not care if you are a dark elf, a half elf, a erudite, an iksar etc etc. So i'm not following you when you say it could possibly become "to powerful", just what use are you thinking of that would make it 'overpowering' when combined with a racial mod? If its not related to velious quests, then what specific thing do you have in mind?

[Uthgaard]

With regards to all the memories about how awesome it used to be, im gonna have to nope.jpg all over you. my main was a bard.

My description is how it should be working. It sounds like there may be something in the source overriding the actual modifier calculation and causing it to make a much larger jump than should be possible.

[Kollins]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...
Typically songs without instrument modifiers require the instrument, and yet this one doesn't.
...

Completely NOT TRUE! There were very few songs that REQUIRED an instrument. The only ones I recall were invis, mcvaxens overhaste songs and the cantanas. This song NEVER required an instrument and originally had different con results when used with and without one. Find proof that it ever REQUIRED an instrument before suggesting such!

See my post in http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...ight=cinda%27s

[BardPop]

Originally Posted by Roufas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember in live having different /con results when wearing a flute and when not wearing one.

Used it a lot in velious to turn in quested armor/stuff, I remember it to the point my guild was still working hardcore to faction up while I could just sing it with amiably faction to go all the way up to ally.

It is that powerful, or at least it should be.

Considering it was never too important in kunark, it is very likely people just didn't care about it's amazing boosts.

I didn't play a bard on live velious so I will defer to those who did, but Roufas at least seems to remember being able to get from amiable to ally as classic. You don't remember anything like that Uthgaard?