Data on AC values in PvP

[Lovely]

Originally Posted by Authority [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're ac is not the same as a tank's ac. I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp.

You only one not grasping it is you

This from Null

AC has no bearing on hit chance.

Just trying to confirm that the only thing that affect miss chance is defense. Which it seems to be (Not counting dodge,riposte,parry, block etcc)

[Treats]

Skill checks should be done prior to hit/miss. Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte has no bearing on AC.

AC has no bearing on hit chance.

Avoidance AC should be the only factor in determining hit or miss.

How it should work (Leaving out Attacker, Just AC):

Attacker attacks
Server calculates if Defender Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte
IF no Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte
Server calculates Avoidance AC (Agility Table + (Defense * 16/9) but never less than 0
This value * 1000 / 847
Server calculates Hit or Miss
If Hit Server calculates Mitigation AC
Caster Mitigation = (Buffs/3) + (Defense/2) + (Equipment + 1)
Melee Mitigation = (Buffs/4) + (Defense/3) + (Equipment * 4/3)
This value * 1000 / 847

Yeah but I'm not counting the dodge/parry/riposte. But the fact that I get hit almost 100% in pvp while on a warrior you get loads of "miss" that isn't a dodge/parry or riposte just a plain miss. But I assume it's all about the defense skill on that then and not AC.

You should be getting hit a lot more than a warrior. It looks like Avoidance is for the most part working correctly by his parses. From non geared to geared he gained 33 agility. This is equal to an increase of about 6 on (T from table). Defense did not change.

Ungeared: 26% Miss
Geared: 31% Miss

Here is an example of what Avoidance AC on a Wizard vs Warrior's should look like. This would be a good test to make sure the Wizard is in fact getting hit more:

50 Warrior
210 Defense
100 Agility
493 Avoidance AC

50 Wizard
145 Defense (Not sure if this is correct for 50)
100 Agility
356 Avoidance AC

Once again there is NO softcap until Velious. Raw AC should be Hardcapped and determined by level. Total AC should be Hardcapped again and based on Class.

[Null]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Skill checks should be done prior to hit/miss. Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte has no bearing on AC.



Avoidance AC should be the only factor in determining hit or miss.

How it should work (Leaving out Attacker, Just AC):

Attacker attacks
Server calculates if Defender Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte
IF no Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte
Server calculates Avoidance AC (Agility Table + (Defense * 16/9) but never less than 0
This value * 1000 / 847
Server calculates Hit or Miss
If Hit Server calculates Mitigation AC
Caster Mitigation = (Buffs/3) + (Defense/2) + (Equipment + 1)
Melee Mitigation = (Buffs/4) + (Defense/3) + (Equipment * 4/3)
This value * 1000 / 847

...

Right, Agi and Defense have bearing on avoidance, not the raw AC stat in your character panel.

[Prova]

Here is the test that I've run against a gearless 49 caster (145 Def). Ungeared warrior data is included for comparison. Note the huge jump in hit rate.

Caster PvP.jpg

[Lovely]

Originally Posted by Prova [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the test that I've run against a gearless 49 caster (145 Def). Ungeared warrior data is included for comparison. Note the huge jump in hit rate.

Attachment 1841

System seems to be pretty fine then. 87% vs 64% is about what it should be imo

[Crenshinabon]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

System seems to be pretty fine then. 87% vs 64% is about what it should be imo

Except that AC does nothing and is completely not working.
THe only thing that seems to work is that you hit cloth classes more often. But if you are a naked warrior fighting a full AC geared warrior then the damage is exactly the same...... broken. This makes all AC items useless in pvp.

If I am a warrior in full bronze or Rubicite fighting a warrior clad in cloth and leather and he is hitting me for the same amount, that needs to be fixed.

[Lovely]

Originally Posted by Crenshinabon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except that AC does nothing and is completely not working.
THe only thing that seems to work is that you hit cloth classes more often. But if you are a naked warrior fighting a full AC geared warrior then the damage is exactly the same...... broken. This makes all AC items useless in pvp.

If I am a warrior in full bronze or Rubicite fighting a warrior clad in cloth and leather and he is hitting me for the same amount, that needs to be fixed.

Ok you have a point! But AC shouldn't add to avoidance at least. Because being hit 64% is already low enough. Lower then that and you'll see those retarded logs of people missing someone 15+ times in a row. But AC should definitely make you get hit for lower amounts when you actually get hit.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Crenshinabon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except that AC does nothing and is completely not working.
THe only thing that seems to work is that you hit cloth classes more often. But if you are a naked warrior fighting a full AC geared warrior then the damage is exactly the same...... broken. This makes all AC items useless in pvp.

If I am a warrior in full bronze or Rubicite fighting a warrior clad in cloth and leather and he is hitting me for the same amount, that needs to be fixed.

From Prova's recent post with the 49 Caster it looks like Avoidance AC is working correctly.

Mitigation AC is what seems to be the problem then. Here are some numbers for three classes of what it should look like. These parses are from NPC's 3-4 levels lower facing front. Cleric AC and Shaman Agility. The RAW AC Hardcap at level 51 should be 163. There are no parses of a character that was naked unfortunately. Still may be somewhat helpful.

Class War Pal Mnk
Level 51 51 51
Raw Item AC 184 181 107
Agility 157 144 169
Dodge 3.4% 3.1% 4.4%
Block 0 % 0% 10.2%
Riposte 4.4% 3.9% 4.1%
Parry 5.2% 4.6% 0%
Skill Evasion 12.9% 11.5% 18.7%
Hit Rate 61.2% 61.3% 58.2%
Avg Hit 72.6 72.9 74.6
% Hits for Max 10.2% 10.5% 11.5%
Avg Dmg / Round 59.7 61.1 54.5
DPS 28.2 28.8 25.7

@ Level 60 -- RAW AC Hardcap at Level 60 is 289 (385 Cloth).

Class War Pal Mnk
Level 60 60 60
Raw Item AC 296 281 163
Agility 177 152 187
Dodge 4.3% 3.9% 4.9%
Block 0 % 0% 11.4%
Riposte 4.8% 4.3% 4.5%
Parry 5.8% 5.2% 0%
Skill Evasion 14.9% 13.4% 20.8%
Hit Rate 59.4% 59.7% 59.3%
Avg Hit 107.3 109.9 113.6
% Hits for Max 10.4% 11.7% 13.6%
Avg Dmg / Round 87.4 91.7 86.1
DPS 50.8 53.3 50

Another note, there should be no Shield AC bonus ever here. It should act just as any other slot (Back/Face/Shoulder/etc). This bonus was added just before Planes of Power.

[Nirgon]

On a twinked (not deleveled...) SK on live, I hate to say that I do recall more misses with a higher AC, esp when being very high for its level.

Big shout out to people who have been wanting their EQ pvp and actually working to improve the server by population or testing therein (read: being a positive influence to the community).

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Prova [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have been doing some testing of AC Values. Here is brief description of the methods and a taste of what I've seen so far.

All attacks have been made by a level 50 warrior using a 10/32 Sharkjaw Cutlass. Shield in offhand to prevent data being skewed.

Offensive skills are as follows, and have stayed as such throughout tests:

Attacker Stats:
Attachment 1826

The first parse is against a level 50 warrior as the target. The first round of results is when the target is naked. The second round is against him with as much AC gear as I could acquire. Notice that the defensive skill is not capped. The char was boosted this way and I wasn't able to get it fixed for this round of tests. Regardless, the undercapped skills stay as such throughout the tests, so they should not cause issues.

Target Stats, Before and After:
Attachment 1827

And the data:
Attachment 1828

Attachment 1829


Based on the data, the mitigation seems negligible at best. More data is to come with chain and cloth values.

THis is a BIG DEAL. Warriors damage is completely fucked with ZERO benefit from armor, we are suppose to have huge mitigation, yet we are being hit by fucking necro and mage pets as hard as a enchanter would take the hits, this is going to completely gimp tanking on raids for warriors too.