Let's talk CLASS BALANCE

[Nagash]

So much stupidity and incoherence beats me... I hereby declare you Troll Champion...

[ojamajoe]

2nd most hilarious thread. The new one about the maps is better, though...

[DaddyBear]

Do you Like BEAR ?

[snwbrdr642]

i dont give a shit about class balance i just want to play the game exactly as it was when it was released.

[Rais]

Class balance came into effect when they put focus effects on items,and gave wizards critical spell effect.

Casters were always behind melee in terms of DPS/Damage for raids, and groups. That's why they mainly ended up as a soloing class. Quad kiting,fear kiting, ect. Groups just didn't want them.

[Doors]

Well timed wizard burst is great for groups. As far back as I can remember, in classic EQ people really didn't care all that much for min maxing. That shit exists now since the WoW era. As long as you didn't go afk every 5 minutes and didn't get the group killed or ninja loot, you were always welcome in a group no matter what you played.

[Grizlor]

This thread sucks and you should feel bad for making it.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Casters were always behind melee in terms of DPS/Damage for raids, and groups.

Not true. Prior to Kunark, Magicians and Necromancers did significantly more DPS against non-raid content than melee classes. Wizards still had shitty DPS but they were actually NECESSARY to kill the high-end boss mobs in the game because melee damage was far below what it would become in Kunark and every other caster would simply get resisted by bosses (and pets were useless, getting AoE feared away and doing almost no damage against bosses to begin with). Wizards were also necessary for even accessing some of the high-end content because of their teleports being the only way to get there.

Class balance turned to shit in Kunark because non-melee damage became absolutely terrible, the Wizard teleports weren't necessary, Hybrid skill caps became screwed up in comparison to the other melee classes, and Druids in general became even crappier whereas Shaman became absolute beasts with the ever-increasing efficiency of their mana regeneration capabilities and the increase of power in their slow line.

[Grizlor]

We get it. You hate shamans. Go cry about it on your livejournal.

Can some mod shitcan this thread already? It belongs in RnF, not general.

[Zuranthium]

I don't hate Shaman at all. I'm sorry if you don't see or don't care about the balance problems that I have been talking about.

It comes down to the kind of difference you see in addition vs. multiplication. The higher you go in numbers, the farther the gap becomes. 2 + 2 is the exact same thing, in outcome, as 2 * 2. 3 + 3 is significantly lower than 3 * 3, however. 4 + 4 is only half of 4 *4. So on and so forth.

A Shaman's power becomes exponentially stronger as they level. A 66% slow spell is actually twice as potent (100% stronger) in comparison to a 33% slow spell. A Shaman's mana regeneration capability becomes stronger and stronger as well because, in addition to the mana regeneration spells themselves becoming more efficient as they go up in level, their ability to recoup the health lost becomes more efficient as well.

This is actually just fine for a Shaman because, despite being much less efficient with those abilities at the lower levels, their healing spells are more comparable to a Cleric's at those levels and Shaman also receive the all-important SoW at a low level. So they are really a completely viable class at any level, without the pet. The addition of the pet gives them extra damage they don't at all deserve. In terms of FLAVOR within this RPG World it also really goes against class lines. Why should a Shaman - a class that is essentially a tribalisitic witch doctor - have a commandable wolf pet and a Druid (who is supposedly a master of animals/plants/nature/the outdoors) instead only have a shitty "Charm Animal" spell that isn't viable in most zones and is generally inferior to the summoned pet to begin with because of the time/mana spent having to constantly recharm and mitigate the pet breaking and attacking you.

And while Shaman are definitely overpowered with the pet, taking the pet away from them doesn't make Druids a viable class at the higher levels. The problem again goes back to additive vs. multiplicative. A Shaman's power increases exponentially at higher levels (as does a Cleric's because of Complete Heal). A Druid's power, however, only increases in an additive manner and it's actually not even a power increase as they get to the higher levels, but rather a significant power decrease. Their DD's do more damage and their DoT's do more damage but those line of spells are actually far LESS powerful than they were at earlier levels because they end up being resisted more and MOBs have so much more HP in comparison (plus, in and of themselves, they are laughable in comparison to melee class damage).

Similarly, a Druid's healing ability becomes pathetic. The higher level healing spells they get are hardly able to compensate for the massive increased damage of MOBs. The Shaman has crap healing at higher levels too but that crap healing is powered by a best-in-game slow line to mitigate damage and amazing mana regeneration to pump into more heals. As I've said before, a single Shaman as a defensive character at the later levels is just as good as 4 Druids put together. In the meantime, while the Shaman is dancing away with that accomplishment, they currently also get to have a pet thwacking away on command for extra damage.

Hence, the changes I've proposed: -pet abilities for Shaman, +pet abilities for Druids, +healing capability for Druids. I would also take away AOE damage spells from Druids (and the AOE snare from Wizards while we're on that subject), as Quad Kiting should not exist unless attempted by multiple characters working together and Druids should instead be utilizing their command of nature when soloing, by having a buffed animal attack things while they stand behind that pet and call upon killer bees (ie - DoT's) or whatever else for extra damage. Even IF the Druid could heal far better and had the pet capabilities, and Shaman didn't have pets, the Druid would still be a less powerful team member at higher levels than a Shaman would be. However, after those changes, Druids would definitely have value and at that point you would be able to say "okay, yeah, Druids are least necessary Priest class for groups at the higher levels but they can solo the best and get teleports."