Where did EQ Live go wrong?

[Arclanz]

Nice post rez. One thing killed EQ. Alienating their players either by mudflating their gear faster than they can replace it; or by continually changing the game mechanics so the EQ of today differs from EQ last year. We are now on version 18 of Everquest, yet they still call it Everquest. Rediculous. The game is retardedly different. SOE could not have screwed this up more. Wisely managed, EQ would have millions of subscribers today.

[Houdiny]

Most of the consensus I get from players in game say PoP killed it for them. I found PoP to be one of the better expansions. Gave people a reason to EXP while max level. The raiding was great. I loved the encounters. And the progression, nothing felt better than your guild entering the PoTime for the first time. The accomplishment, the rewards to come. Was a great feeling.

There are a lot of things SoE has done to EQ I didn't approve of. But in the end I kept on playing it. I think I quit after the Seeds of Destruction expansion finally. Went a long way with it. Had a lot of fun. To me it was more about the relationships built playing the game. I was in one solid guild for many many years. And I didn't want to leave the game simply because of them. I think the people that were in great guilds (not just successful) found ways to enjoy the game even in it's later stages.

But alas one day I woke up, most of the original crew was gone. Seen pieces of gear with over 1k hp/mana on them and said...this is getting out of hand lol

[fadetree]

I liked PoP ok. Hated stuff after that.

Insane gear inflation, blurring the lines between classes, removal of travel, huge amounts of AA's needed to do anything, the ridiculous defiant gear dropping like rain all contributed to me quitting live. But the final straw was the Mercs...I just couldn't believe they did that. It's just a fundamental violation of what EQ was all about.

I suppose they figured that since they weren't getting many new subscribers, they might as well trash the low game and focus all on the raiders, butchering the low game so that any fool could get to max level in no time. Of course, once there, they have to grind eleventy billion AA's.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I liked PoP ok. Hated stuff after that.

EQ had started to go wrong by PoP, but really, after you've gone to their planes and killed all the gods, and quad-god Quarm, everything else seemed kind of pointless. Storyline-wise it started hurting.

[toddfx]

Originally Posted by Skekekke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Make another toon? Twink it to hell and back? Get bored and quit,

Twinking is one aspect that is always overlooked in threads like this. Of course it is the players choice, not the game developers, but to me twinking is definitely a factor which degrades the true experience of EQ or any game for that matter.

In my book, twinking is cheating. It is a blurry line indeed, but twinking your level 1 character with 10k worth of gear seems pretty disgraceful. I can admit I have done my share of twinking (and PLing, etc.), but looking back on all my EQ experiences, the best have ALWAYS been the FIRST characters on said servers.

I certainly know it is very difficult to resist the urge to transfer over just a few hundred plat for provisions, but the instant you do even that, the entire game changes. It's no longer about finding your way in the rough, collecting all the loot you can (and loving it), and steadily building a character you can be proud of. It leads you to overlook and bypass 90% of the things you would have been excited about if you were playing the game like it was meant to be played.

Over-twinking your young characters takes away everything there is to look forward to other than that next DING sound, and dramatically accelerates the gap of time before you run out of worthy content and get bored. Maybe that is the way some people like it. But to others, it's the surefire way to get burned out.

Anyway, I know this is not 100% on topic, but in my personal experience twinking and taking big shortcuts is definitely an aspect (which was directly accelerated by numerous expansion features) that contributed my past EQ experiences to go wrong. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL;DR: Blame it on the damned expansions! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Hamahakki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cats on the moon

This.

It went wrong when verant (mcquaid and crew) no longer had creative control. They made the game great. Their absence made it suck.

[Arclanz]

I feel the same way, Todd! (and also guilty of (very) little twinking and PL'ng*, myself)

Came back to EQ for LDON, and when I saw a paladin slay undead for 5k, I suddenly felt moved to play my main again. I two boxed my 65 Cleric to get my Paladin from 55 to 60 and about 100 more AAs. AAs were a lot more time consuming back then. One AA per hour was considered very good at that time.

[Houdiny]

I don't buy the whole "twinking ruins games" factor. I tend to lean towards it helping more than hurting. And here is why.

We all play this game, and the objective to the game is to get experience and level up and achieve nice things. There are a handful of people who have no interest in this at all, but to my experience playing MMO's these are few and very far between. The status quo is level up, have fun, get stuff, enjoy the game.

And here is where I lose this argument. If someone is twinking a character they are making life on them much easier, and the groups they attend. I ran into a few monks with Fungi tunics leveling up and it was great. We didn't have enough players for a full group and the fact that the monk could tank and not need much if any healing allowed me to enjoy a group that otherwise wasn't going to happen.

Not to mention that when you are looking for people to fill a group roll the majority of people don't take whoever is available. They take the best fit for their group. What's going to reward them the best exp and the best chance of items dropping.

Twinking and re playability is essential to EQ I think. It is one of the reasons the game has stayed alive and going for so many years. While others without twinking and re playability have faded away into the sunset. I'm not saying that is the only reason why but I think it plays a large part in the longevity of Everquest.

[SirAlvarex]

For me it was a combination of PoP books making the world seem smaller, and just plain better games coming out at the time. I loved DAoC pre-expansions. SWG was tons of fun pre-NGE. Everquest 2 was also awesome for a few expansions (then kicked up again after Kunark was released).

Then I kind of out-grew the whole experience with college. Now I play EQ because it's the ultimate carrot on the stick game. It's hard to earn stuff, so when I do end up getting some planar gear/that epic drop, I feel awesome.

Oh, and the sandbox nature of everything is killable, and we're all given a set of tools and can use them how we wish. Hell, in some games the idea of "fear kiting" or "snare kiting" is considered exploits. Here it's just a great way to XP.

So I don't think EQ went "wrong" for me until PoP. And even then, it was only "more wrong" than the other options at the time. I never played after PoP, so I don't know how terrible it really got.

[webrunner5]

I think the twinking thing is way over the top on a group setting. Solo I think it does help a lot. But in a group I don't think it makes a tinkers damn. Ever notice if you are solo in a zone you can kill a mob about as fast as a 3 person group can at the same levels?

I have never asked what gear a person has here or on live for a invite. Most people on here pretty much suck for gear. Big deal. Who doesn't want nice gear, but group wise I think it is pretty much a waste.