Rogue Questions...

[nsob0331]

Hello P99, I currently have a 35 shaman as my main, and while he is fun, since about level 6 I have longed to get back on the melee side of things. I am interested in building a rogue as an alt, but have a few questions/concerns...

-First off, what makes a rogue tick (why did/do/would you play one)?

-Are rogues "gimped" (moreso than other classes)? I understand that rogues are not a solo class and require groups, but what I am really wondering is are there any future patches/fixes/changes/nerfs/whatevers in the classic timeline that will drastically alter their roles and/or capabilities?

-How useful are the current rogue abilities (sense traps, pick locks, disarm traps)?

-Does make/apply poison work as intended on P99? (I saw some people talking about it in /ooc a while back and it sounded like something was broken)

-Do rogues actually use their make/apply poison skills, or is it just a novelty? I don't think I've ever really seen it come up in game or on the forums, other than that one discussion in /ooc...

-I understand rogues are a pretty gear dependant class (as with most melee classess) are there any essential quests or gear that I should be on the look out for? I have some basic twink items to work with (mithril bp, silver plated legs, 5/55 rings, exe hood, DWB, azure sleeves, SBD) that should hopefully get me into my 20-30's. Also, no FBSS/haste items...is that going to affect my ability to get groups?

-In general, what types of weapons should a rogue be using? Obviously at least a piercer in main hand, but procs or no procs? Or is that entirely situational?

-Starting stats? I know 9/10 times that regardless of what class it is, people will say, "Dump it all in STA and the rest doesn't matter"...does the same hold true here?

-Any other advice/tips/info/opinions?

Any input or help on any of these topics would be a great help, and greatly appreciated. Thanks and happy hunting

[Dominick]

A rogue is all skill. Practice every skill and keep them up. Be anal retentive. Don't just sit there in EC< work on a skill.

You have to avoid aggro, while keeping high DPS in a group. SOmetimes you pull while sneaking, sometimes you are the key, sometimes you also are the trap disabler.

Use hide to evade during a fight. I make a macro key with:
/attack off
/(hide ability)
I usually put in a sneak

I also make one with
/(backstab)
/attack off
/(hide ability)
/attack on

Pick where you stand, behind the mob is one place, to the side is Ok as long as you can move to back stab.

You do not back stab as often as it refreshes, you back stab as often as you can without getting aggro. When you get aggro keep evading until the mob goes back to the tank. Sometimes when the mob turns around I backstab again, just to make the tank work harder on his taunt.

Higher levels try duoing with a ranger or necro, use their snare and your intimidate, for back stabbing chasing goodness.

[Noselacri]

-Are rogues "gimped" (moreso than other classes)? I understand that rogues are not a solo class and require groups, but what I am really wondering is are there any future patches/fixes/changes/nerfs/whatevers in the classic timeline that will drastically alter their roles and/or capabilities?

Before Kunark, rogues sort of suck. It's not a horrible class to play, but it doesn't stand out much and adds virtually nothing besides raw damage to a group. Monks are better DPS, as are casters generally, and the commonly available piercing weapons aren't impressive. This all changes in Kunark where a few class mechanic changes and the easily-achieved rogue epic makes the class much, much stronger. From then on, it's more or less the top DPS, possibly tied with one or two other classes depending on content and gear bracket.

-How useful are the current rogue abilities (sense traps, pick locks, disarm traps)?

Not much use right now. The trap skills will never be worth anything, and pick lock is highly situational at best; it becomes a little better in Kunark where a few places requre a rogue or a hard-to-get key, but all in all, rogue utility rarely amounts more to dragging corpses while stealthed.

-Does make/apply poison work as intended on P99? (I saw some people talking about it in /ooc a while back and it sounded like something was broken)

Don't really know, but I've never seen anyone use it.

-Do rogues actually use their make/apply poison skills, or is it just a novelty? I don't think I've ever really seen it come up in game or on the forums, other than that one discussion in /ooc...

In my opinion, poisons are nearly useless. The snare one might have the very rare application in an extremely unlikely scenario, but I have played several rogues throughout the years and have never even bothered to train the skill. It is by no means a crucial element of the class, and I'd call it a novelty.

-I understand rogues are a pretty gear dependant class (as with most melee classess) are there any essential quests or gear that I should be on the look out for? I have some basic twink items to work with (mithril bp, silver plated legs, 5/55 rings, exe hood, DWB, azure sleeves, SBD) that should hopefully get me into my 20-30's. Also, no FBSS/haste items...is that going to affect my ability to get groups?

The Burning Rapier (or whatever) quest works, and that's a pretty decent weapon. Can't think of any other rogue quests off the top of my head. You'll want to look into getting a Polished Steel Dirk (8/23 piercing) as it is pretty much the best ratio you'll find prior to raid loot. SBD are alright until they proc, at which point you should look into new weapons as the proc is pretty useless and generates huge aggro. I've never seen anyone rejected because of gear, but if you're still in banded at 47 for some reason, people might start to raise eyebrows. I've never even had someone inspect me before they would invite me on my warrior, and I don't have a haste item either. You should have no problems unless you end up being truly worthlessly geared; don't try to raid ToV without a haste item, if you somehow got that far without one. :P

-In general, what types of weapons should a rogue be using? Obviously at least a piercer in main hand, but procs or no procs? Or is that entirely situational?

Procs are fine if they don't have inherently high aggro. Anything that procs a plain DD or a DoT is good, but stay the hell away from stuns, snares and debuffs like the ones on SBD and Obsidian Shard. You can use a different type of weapon in your off-hand if you like, but I don't think there are any at this point that make it specifically worthwhile. In Kunark you could use something like Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn, and probably several other similar weapons.

-Starting stats? I know 9/10 times that regardless of what class it is, people will say, "Dump it all in STA and the rest doesn't matter"...does the same hold true here?

That was only ever really true if you fully intended to become a raider. In later expansions stats became easily maxed, but even in Velious it takes serious gear to max them all to the point where only stamina is worthwhile. If you're the kind of guy who will be wearing mostly buyable/groupable gear, you could probably put your stats most anywhere, but stamina is a good idea if you want to be sure to avoid ever having wasted the points in case you get raid gear some day. I would consider dex, though, since stamina returns for rogue are unimpressive and you're never going to tank anything. Dex affects proc rates and, supposedly, backstab accuracy. Strength might technically be better, but that stat becomes maxable in Kunark with fairly modest gear, so that would quickly become a waste unless you make a wood elf or something silly like that.

[Dominick]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, poisons are nearly useless. The snare one might have the very rare application in an extremely unlikely scenario, but I have played several rogues throughout the years and have never even bothered to train the skill. It is by no means a crucial element of the class, and I'd call it a novelty.

I agree with this, I also dont like proc weapons (builds aggro) except the dagger that procs engulfing darkness. Thats a snare and will give you a little help if you have to run, or if you use intimidate.

[Shiftin]

i pretty routinely get out DPS'd by monks with or without weapons at 35 with SBD + Burning rapier and above average strength, plus those monks can tank, pull and avoid most of the deaths i take. nice life.

anyway, what's the deal with disarm? I've tried it on every enemy with a weapon for the last week and never gotten a success or fail message or actual disarm. Does it work on p1999?

[G13]

I think disarm is broken here

At least it used to be

[nsob0331]

Thanks very much for the input guys. One other question... Is diety choice going to affect a rogue at all? With the DE illusion mask for example, if I follow a "good" diety will the dark elves see through it? What about agnostic? Thanks again =)

[Dominick]

Originally Posted by nsob0331 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks very much for the input guys. One other question... Is diety choice going to affect a rogue at all? With the DE illusion mask for example, if I follow a "good" diety will the dark elves see through it? What about agnostic? Thanks again =)

Agnostic or Bristlebane, they will see deity IIRC.

[Arkanjil]

Rogues are unimportant until 60 or they are needed to scout/cr. What? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Eccentricaa]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The trap skills will never be worth anything, and pick lock is highly situational at best.

Lock pick can come in handy.. Of course its situational, because there are not locks everywhere. But when there is one, that needs to be picked, I'd prefer the rogue in our group to be able to accomplish it.

There are not many traps in the game, but there are a few key ones that disarm does makes life easier. The bridge in Charok, as your plowing to the Royals, for example.

IMO, nothing looks worse than a rogue that cant open a door. It shows how little time you have invested in your character.