Game Mechanics: Backstab Threat

[Rubby]

Problem: Backstab now generates instant aggro.

Background:
Pre-Patch I was in oasis killing crocs with tanks of all varieties. Never pulled threat off them with a backstab.

Post-Patch I get instant aggro when I backstab.

This change was not mentioned on the list of changes. So unsure if it is deliberate or a bug. But with current system I can only backstab once per fight when mob is low on health or I become the tank for the entire fight.

Locations :
Upper Guk Level 17 Rogue with Level 18 Warrior tanking
Oasis Level 17 Rogue with Level 18 Warrior tanking
Oasis Level 17 Rogue with Level 18 Paladin tanking

Paladin was only able to get aggro when blinding.

Only equipment changes from pre patch to post patch was a Polished Granite Tomahawk in offhand upgraded to a serrated bone dirk. Main hand weapon ( Serrated Bone Dirk ) was not changed. Weapon does not proc.

[kanras]

There was a bug that was causing backstab aggro to be zero. That bug was fixed in last patch. Also, PGT's rune proc is a decent amount of aggro.

[tj218]

Back on Live (I know anecdotal so it doesn't count) but backstab would generate aggro, but evade would negate it. That's why most rogues had a macro with /backstab, /attack (off), /hide (evade), /attack (on)

I can miss a backstab attempt now AND successfully evade, but I am still beat on the whole fight (and I don't use any proc'ing weapons)

If it was set at 0, that is clearly wrong, but please double check that evade is working as it should (bumps you down on aggro list).

[Rubby]

First off, Thanks Kanras for the timely response.

The information was good to know. Currently even with a successful evade I still pull aggro. In other words: I don't notice a successful evade doing anything. It certaintly does not keep me from death if I use a backstab during the middle of the fight.

I suppose if it is intended for backstab to be used once per fight when the mob is at 20 percent health. Then all is good.

[Shiftin]

I was having the same issues tonight. I say issues because it felt like two separate issues.

1. Evade was basically worthless. Most successful evades still left me at the top of the aggro list. There were multiple instances where I would draw aggro, evade, completely stop attacking, and get summoned over and over while i backed away not attacking long enough to evade again. Sometimes the second evade would lower me from the aggro list. The warrior trying to pull aggro from me was 55+ and dual wielding yak clubs.

2 I understand a backstab should generate aggro, but it's generating way more than multiple ykesha procs from what I saw. Backstab consistently threw me at the top of the aggro list. Rogues are going to go from the kings of melee DPS to not being able to engage mobs before 60% when ragebringers go in.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yeah instantly post patch a 60 warrior with Blade of the black dragon eye and Ringed Mace of the Ykesha could not hold aggro off of a rogue. Even when the rogue would evade multiple times, after waiting till 60% to engage. It definitely causes aggro now, but something is not jiving.

[Torven]

I posted my thoughts about warrior aggro in another thread, but thought I would contribute this:

We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill (possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the hate list implemented with Velious.

source: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010221a.html (3 months into Velious)

so apparently evade was damn near an aggro wipe until then.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I recently created a rogue and noticed this happening as well. I have not played a rogue for a long time, so I thought this was the way things are supposed to be, but while in groups, I noticed I pulled aggro and held it the entire fight after using BS. This happened even if the BS did not connect...which seems very odd. I also use evade and even when being successful at my attempt nothing happened...I still had aggro. This does seem a little broken. I am still low enough in levels to not be too worried about dieing real fast with aggro, but I can see this being a huge problem later on.

[dojo420]

just to confirm:

got aggro even when far below the tank in total damage. i suspected either aggro per swing went up or there is an innate aggro value for attempting to backstab (happened even when backstab missed).

evade didnt seem to work every now and then even when succesful. although sometimes it seemed to work even when it failed (might have been stopping to dps).

didn't do any tests/parses to back this up though (edit: except for gamparse overlay for total damage).

[Enderenter]

A Tank friend of mine using Black Dragon Blade mainhand and Ringed Mace of the Ykesha offhand was having rogues pull aggro from him all night in Seb right after patch. That's clearly not how it is supposed to be. As a shaman when I group with him I slow the mobs at 95% hp and rarely pull off aggro. In classic backstabing caused more aggro than slow? I think not.