ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[fullmetalcoxman]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i've decided that "the mummer's dragon" does not imply a fake dragon, or that Aegon is a fake tagaryen, but that its a form of ownership. ie: the dragon that belongs to the mummer.
and that leads me to think that Illyrio is the mummer.

huzzah!

Or Tyrion's dragon, since Tyrion was literally a mummer, for a little while at least. Why would Illyrio get one?

[Tenlaar]

If mummer = actor, who is the best actor in the series?

VARYS! That's what he's been working towards all along! It all makes sense now.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by fullmetalcoxman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or Tyrion's dragon, since Tyrion was literally a mummer, for a little while at least. Why would Illyrio get one?

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If mummer = actor, who is the best actor in the series?
VARYS! That's what he's been working towards all along! It all makes sense now.

Illyrio get one what? im not saying he gets an actual dragon, i'm saying that Aegon was part of Illyrio's plan. Varys and Illyrio have been in cahoots together for decades, since they were both young.

i was referring to this quote from the book:

Quaithe proceeds to deliver another cryptic warning:
"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Pale Mare = the Bloody Flux
the "others" = White Walkers
Kraken = Victarion Greyjoy
Dark Flame = Moqorro
Lion = Tyrion Lannister
Griffin = Jon Connington
Sun's Son = Quentyn Martell
the Mummer = Illyrio or Varys
the Mummer's Dragon = Aegon Targaryen
Remember the Undying = the visions she saw, or, the way she was deceived/tricked
Perfumed Seneschal = Varys or Illyrio

Possible others for the perfumed seneschal =

• Reznak mo Reznak - due to his position in Daenerys Targaryen's court and his penchant for wearing lots of perfume.
• The Selaesori Qhoran (Fragrant Steward), a trading cog.
• Satin the steward to Jon Snow, who wears perfume.

[Tenlaar]

Yeah, I was just playing off of fullmetalcoxman's misinterpretation. I think Varys is the mummer, but I don't think Illyrio fits for the perfumed seneschal. I mean, he's not a seneschal of anything, as far as I can recall.

I think it's going to end up being Satin, myself. We pretty much know Jon and Dany are going to come together at some point, which would give him access to her. He claims to come from the Citadel - I don't know if it will be that he was actually sent by the Citadel for whatever reason or if we will find out that was just lies and he is somebody completely unexpected.

Now, another of your points...dark flame. I'm not so sure it's Moqorro. Seems a bit too obvious to me. I think it's quite possible that dark flame will end up meaning Blackfyre and we'll find out that the line isn't quite as dead as people thought.

ETA: I know it's assumed that the things in the prophecy have to go together how they're lumped grammatically, but I'm not sure that's going to end up true. Or true in the way people think.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Join the realm: http://www.jointherealm.com/sigil.html

[goalie]

cant wait for the show.

the show is the show, and the books are the books.

Comparing them is stupid.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I was just playing off of fullmetalcoxman's misinterpretation. I think Varys is the mummer, but I don't think Illyrio fits for the perfumed seneschal. I mean, he's not a seneschal of anything, as far as I can recall.

A seneschal (pron.: /ˈsɛnəʃəl/) was an officer in the houses of important nobles in the Middle Ages. In the French administrative system of the Middle Ages, the sénéchal was also a royal officer in charge of justice and control of the administration in southern provinces

based on that definition i truly think its possible for the Seneschal to be varys or Illyrio, however i dont think 1 person can hold two spots on list, and i think Varys and Illyrio are to important to the story of the realm not to be involved. look up the history of those two men when they were younger. they have always been in cahoots.

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We pretty much know Jon and Dany are going to come together at some point, which would give him access to her. He claims to come from the Citadel - I don't know if it will be that he was actually sent by the Citadel for whatever reason or if we will find out that was just lies and he is somebody completely unexpected.

never forget, the dragon has 3 heads. Aegon had his two sisters, Dany will have her two brothers (Jon and Aegon), i imagine Tyrion will be her hand of the queen, and either Selmy or Jorah will lead her queens guard, but Jorah i dont see making it. and what are u talking about with the citadel there? you completely lost me on that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now, another of your points...dark flame. I'm not so sure it's Moqorro. Seems a bit too obvious to me. I think it's quite possible that dark flame will end up meaning Blackfyre and we'll find out that the line isn't quite as dead as people thought.

to be fair, there are 3 red priests running around (Melisandre, Thoros, and Moqorro). that being said, i ABSOLUTELY LOVE where your head is at on this one. never considered the blackfyres.

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ETA: I know it's assumed that the things in the prophecy have to go together how they're lumped grammatically, but I'm not sure that's going to end up true. Or true in the way people think.

explain

Originally Posted by goalie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

cant wait for the show.
the show is the show, and the books are the books.
Comparing them is stupid.

very true. at least for people that have been doing both. i love the show because i love seeing all these people and places and events ive read about. but at the same time, i KNOW what happens in season 3, there will be no shock factor, even in Episode 9 (9 is their big one, S1 it was Ned, S2 it was B.W. Bay)

whereas i would burn down a church for children with special needs to get book 6.

[goalie]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

very true. at least for people that have been doing both. i love the show because i love seeing all these people and places and events ive read about. but at the same time, i KNOW what happens in season 3, there will be no shock factor, even in Episode 9 (9 is their big one, S1 it was Ned, S2 it was B.W. Bay)

whereas i would burn down a church for children with special needs to get book 6.

agreed. I enjoy the show for what it is, and the books for what they are.

[Tenlaar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

based on that definition i truly think its possible for the Seneschal to be varys or Illyrio

Well I've never considered Illyrio as being a part of any house, but rather an independent master of his own estate - but I can see how a case could be made for him holding a position in the underground Targaeryan house. Now, as to them being important, that could very well tie into the Blackfyre thing - I've seen some speculation that they are actually Blackfyres in hiding, from when the remnants of the family crossed the narrow sea.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and what are u talking about with the citadel there? you completely lost me on that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Satin claimed that before he joined the Night's Watch he was a "pillow boy" at the Citadel. The maesters of the Citadel are the ones that killed the last dragons, and work to prevent the return of magic to the world. That's why I think Satin is the perfumed seneschal and is working for the Citadel in some capacity.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

explain

With the wording of the prophecy, how they are lumped by commas, people seem to assume that they have to come together. Kraken and dark flame HAVE to mean Victarion and Moqorro, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. Lion and griffin HAVE to mean Tyrion and Connington, because they are together in the prophecy and have come together in the books. I'm just not entirely convinced and think GRRM could very well have laid it out in that way simply to have red herrings everywhere, so I like to keep my mind open to other possibilities.

[Tenlaar]

I want to expound a bit on the Blackfyre thing, because I think it's an interesting possibility. The vast plot goes something like this - Varys and Serra were brother and sister, children of the Blackfyre house. Upon the doom of the house they ended up as slaves. Now, Varys was picked specifically and bought by the wizard that...eunichized? him. At that point, Varys was already well into an apprenticeship (you know, as a MUMMER), so I'm sure buying him would have been a lot more expensive than any unskilled slave. So, why? After his junk was cut off, it was thrown into a fire during a spell. And what makes magic more powerful? The blood of kings!

Also, Varys said that when Selmy killed Maelys at the battle of Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of house Blackfyre. Not the end of the line, the end of the male line. So this leaves us with Serra, Varys' sister. The last of the female line of Blackfyre. Illyrio marries his first wife in order to increase his station. She dies (how convenient), and he marries Serra. Illyrio and Serra have a child...a child they name Aegon. DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNN!