Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > General Community > Off Topic

View Poll Results: Can capitalism exist with govt
Yes 16 51.61%
No 15 48.39%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-13-2011, 01:45 AM
tmoneynegro tmoneynegro is offline
Banned


Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 114
Default Can capitalism exist without govt

edit: Fuck, I messed up the poll title, it should read "Can Capitalism exist without govt"

There were a bunch of D- students in P99 chat like Abacab claiming capitalism can't exist without govt.

Capitalism Defintion: private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit in a market, and prices and wages are elements of capitalism

There are no government agencies listed as requirements for that. Furthermore, if only 2 people exist on the entire planet and they barter a boulder for a dead rat, that is capitalism.
Last edited by tmoneynegro; 10-13-2011 at 05:57 AM..
  #2  
Old 10-13-2011, 04:30 AM
Csihar Csihar is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Furthermore, if only 2 people exist on the entire planet and they barter a boulder for a dead rat, that is capitalism.
No.
  #3  
Old 10-13-2011, 05:13 AM
tmoneynegro tmoneynegro is offline
Banned


Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Csihar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
No.
Then what is it? Another D student claiming something isn't capitalism yet can't explain what it would be. Simple "barter" is in fact capitalism.
  #4  
Old 10-13-2011, 07:48 AM
Estrang Estrang is offline
Kobold

Estrang's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 176
Default

you are stupid if you think a thread like this will win over Secret's heart
__________________
Knukkle <The Mystical Order> P99
  #5  
Old 10-13-2011, 07:53 AM
Csihar Csihar is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 318
Default

No.
  #6  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:32 AM
Doors Doors is offline
Planar Protector

Doors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,933
Default

I voted for Boo Berry because its my most favoritist cereal in the whole wide world.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakaris View Post
You can be my squire once you can bench half of what I can.
  #7  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:02 AM
Doors Doors is offline
Planar Protector

Doors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,933
Default

Aw someone deleted my second comment. Joke ruined.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakaris View Post
You can be my squire once you can bench half of what I can.
  #8  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Loke Loke is offline
Fire Giant

Loke's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: AKANON PROBABLY
Posts: 781
Default

This is a horrible phrased question, there are so many factors to consider.

First, most free-market proponent, and even most anarcho-capitalist will agree that there is a necessary function of the government in a capitalist economy. Even in a truly free market, there needs to be a general guideline for conduct (contract law notably), as well as a place to settle disputes in relation to those guidelines (judicial system), as well as a mixed bag of other albeit less "economic" functions (defense, etc).

Now, despite your definition, as we've seen through our current economy, the whole idea of capitalism is a slightly ambiguous term. You really need to look at the entire economy to question whether government is necessary. Are you going to have a purely barter economy? If not, what kind of banking system would the economy have? If there was fractional reserve banking, would those banks be supported by a centralized reserve bank? What would be used as a medium of exchange? Gold? Gold backed currency? Fiat currency? If fiat currency, who would regulate and control it? I mean, if we're talking about the US dollar, you really have to think about the implications there as well. Since 1971, the US dollar has essentially been akin to gold in that is a universally accepted store of wealth - which has further implications when you start to think about the fact that the US government could essentially print gold (not really, but you get my point). That isn't even considering aspects of monetary policy conducted by a central governing body, which is something I won't get into...

So to answer your question, no. A free market economy certainly can exist in a variety of forms, but unless we return to a barter economy (and even then not really) we need some sort of governing body (not necessarily a federal government) to provide those fundamental and very limited guidelines and services.

I happen to be a proponent of the Austrian and Chicago schools of economics (there are aspects of both I really like; and yes, I know they're not the same thing..) which both tend to favor free markets. However, despite what the MSM and people like Krugman would have you believe, even us wacky free-marketers understand the need for limited regulation. The disagreement has never been over "government" or "no government" - it has been about "how much government". History has shown time and time again that intervention in the markets leads to unnaturally large bubbles that eventually burst. This all stems for the Keynesian idea that we can promote constant economic growth through the use of monetary policy to avoid down turns in the economy. There is a lot of debate about this even among economist, but the thinking I tend to agree with is that intervention through monetary policy only exaggerates the natural highs and lows of the business cycle, something which I tend to think is undesirable.
  #9  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:25 AM
Harrison Harrison is offline
Banned


Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Aw someone deleted my second comment. Joke ruined.
You mean blatant racism isn't allowed on the forums?! NOWAI
  #10  
Old 10-13-2011, 12:24 PM
tmoneynegro tmoneynegro is offline
Banned


Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
First, most free-market proponent, and even most anarcho-capitalist will agree that there is a necessary function of the government in a capitalist economy.
The question has nothing to do with your opinions of how the world should operate. It's about textbook definitions.

If the US govt collapsed tomorrow, capitalism can exist with no "state" being around at all.
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.