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#1
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Druid charm should be exempt from CHA checks when determining duration.
This is something I have personally experienced myself: Even with a Paw of Opolla on a Halfling Druid with base CHA (50 - 5 = 45 CHA, (_30 under average_)), charm should still land for half to full duration a significant portion of the time. I tested this back in 1999/2000 by charming sonic bats in SolB to level from the mid 40s to 50 and then again to the mid 50s once Kunark came out.
In my experience this worked reliably enough to be a viable soloing method with just a 5-10 level difference, no -MR, and abysmal or better CHA, yet on P99 it is still excessively dangerous even with a 10 level difference, no -MR, and 150 CHA. Here you need at least two of the three following advantages for charm to be reliable enough to be usable in non-emergencies.
I am still trying to pin down any official statements on the effects of Charisma on Charm, though the only often repeated claim I have come across is that Charisma is the third and least significant check performed in determining charm duration. Quote:
In my experience, -MR has the biggest effect followed by CHA, followed by level difference, at least for dark blue monsters at 50 with normal MR. Here is a discussion I recently stumbled across that has more-or-less reached a consensus that druid charm is barely, if at all, effected by CHA. Also is a quote from another once halfling druid who charm solod with 45 CHA, a near impossibility here. Quote:
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... From the sound of things, druid charm simply can't check CHA the way charm works here. The CHA check here is obviously designed to penalize enchanters who not only normally have 200 CHA but also -20 MR plus the ability to CC most effectively when charm breaks unexpectedly. That assumed, there is simply no way to buff charm for druids to be in line with these comments without OPing enchanters unless charm is changed to ignore CHA for druids. This was already done for necros to be in line with classic -- can the same please be done for druids given the overwhelming evidence that CHA had little or no effect on druid charm? | |||||||||
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#2
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Bump.
Druid charm is unusable in it's current state because it is checking charisma as if I were an enchanter. Charm without Tash or Malo will not average more than a few minutes duration on mobs 5-10 levels below me while enchanters have little problem doing this with just Tash because of their naturally obscene charisma. I am literally wearing every single piece of charisma gear a druid can use in classic yet charm will not last long enough for my pet to die but 1 in 5 charms. This is very wrong and very not classic as per many comments above. Druids should be in the same boat as Necromancers where charisma has absolutely no effect on duration OR the effect is so negligible that 80+% of that classes player population has tried it and believes it is useless. Currently charm is too risky to use with less than 150-175 CHA on somewhat challenging mobs and 200+ CHA on challenging mobs. This makes it unusable for druids who simply can not get that much charisma. Is there any reason this is not being looked into/fixed? Is anything else needed to fix this? | ||
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#3
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I hate to burden the hard working devs with another issue, but as a Halfling druid this one will have a tremendous negative affect on my gameplay in Kunark. We all know leveling as a non-pet class is a lot slower, so any druid with a clue is going to want to charm for exp in Kunark, which has a lot of animal mobs.
I think it's established that charm is too charisma reliant on P99, especially for druids, but what makes it much, much worse for Halflings is our 50 base charisma and the fact that charisma gear caps out for us at ~+100. Charm only BEGINS to not be worthless above 150 charisma, and Halflings can only achieve 150 charisma replacing every slot they can (152 with tranix crown) with charisma gear. Non-Halflings can achieve 177 (179 w/ crown) as they can wear a +5 chest item we cannot and have 25 more base. (we can wear Halfling only +3 boots, but non-Halflings get a +3 boot item in Kunark) As the game is now, you'd be crazy to roll a Halfling druid over the other races. The difference charisma makes in charm duration is enormous. I keep hearing that 200 is a magic number for charms, and non-Halflings can get there without shaman/enchanter buffs (using alchemy pots) but we cannot. Not even with Kunark items. Once disease resist pots get fixed, druids will be screwed further. (I assume the 5 plat ones aren't supposed to give +25) If you guys don't want to remove charisma checks, then something like adding +50 or +100 to the equation for druids would at least make the spell usable after switching to our 14 piece charisma set without having to use pots or getting a charisma buff. | ||
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#4
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If this is changed, I hope it's applies for necros too. I haven't had much experience charming with a necro, but I do know necro centric gear is usually negative charisma.
Having played mostly a enchanter, I am a charm-a-holic and would love some viability to charm as a necro too. | ||
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#5
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I played a druid from 2000 until I quit when GoD came out. From my experience and tests, CHA did absolutely nothing for a druid. One of my friends played an enchanter, together we did alot of charm duo'ing and throughout these times I had tested CHA gear along with the enchanter CHA buff on. With 200+ CHA on a druid my charm didnt hold any longer on average than when I had my negative CHA test gear leaving me at 1 CHA. From what my experience has told me, enchanter is the only class that is dependant on CHA for charming. I dont play a druid anymore nowadays, but it would be nice to see this problem fixed.
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#6
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Well I just tried to charm in Kedge on test after the charisma potion nerf/fix. Charm is basically unusable now that I'm stuck at 150. The difference in charm duration from 150 to 175 to 200 charisma is just too enormous.
So I'm here to basically beg for a fix. (pretty please) Or if you guys don't want to change how charm works, I'd seriously rather be a wood elf with all of my points put into charisma. A Halfling druid is a gimped druid. I'm going to have to abandon this character if charm remains this way [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] With the dot fix/nerf and unusable charm, it's just not worth playing the class unless you're a non-Halfling with all points dumped into charisma. | ||
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#7
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I notice a difference from 240 to 255 cha on my enchanter. Maybe I'm imagining it.
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Bush <Toxic>
Jeremy <TMO> - Patron Saint of Blue | ||
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#8
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Would be nice to hear a word from one of the dev on this. Just something as simple as if its being looked into or if its staying as it is?
I am still a low level (14 atm) just got my charm. tried using it 20 or so times in Karanas, majority of the time mobs break within 10 seconds or so, even the ones Green to me. The longest ive had charm last is about 30 seconds so far, and that happened once on a green mob. I dont remember it being like this on Live at all. I remembe charming light blue con things for minutes at a time without a problem almost 100% of the time with an occasional early break. So at this point charm is really unusable. So as a druid leveling its not very close to classic experience since the 2 main ways to level as a druid as not the same as classic (kiting/charming): - Kiting: Mob speeds are different from classic, so it makes it harder - Charming: Broken, basically unusable.
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Last edited by Chrushev; 03-17-2011 at 01:12 PM..
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#9
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Quote:
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Fearstalker - Enchanter Guild Leader of <Taken> ----------------------- | |||
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#10
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Would be good to know if this is going to be looked at or if the evidence gathered so far is insufficent; it's certainly not conclusive, but the consensus amongst druids back in the day suggests charisma is significantly less important than it is here.
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Kaira Bloodrose <Divinity> - 54 Cleric of Erollisi
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