Rules clarification

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Crazyeye [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have a game for casuals ya know, its called world of warcraped or something. Welcome for the best advice given in this thread so far.

TMO wouldn't clear less than half of the raid content in WoW, guaranteed.

You can't poopsock and zerg down content.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Asedo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gratz TMO on not even making a week before causing a shit fest. Bottom line is BDA came down to Trak and had 40+ to rip through Trak. You guys only had a few and had no way to beat them to Trak. So you pull out a bullshit rule so you don't have to race to it.

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Now you'll say something like, "but there's a huge difference between being 20 pixels away from spawn point and 1,000 pixels away from spawn point." You would be correct. However, where do we draw the line? And if we do draw the line at, say, 25 pixels (instead of the ~0 pixel proximity to raid mob), how long do you think it will be before another RnF thread is made regarding a guild using THAT rule to their advantage and to someone else's DISadvantage?

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

[Relapse1]

have fun camping your mains out at raid targets. Eq is more fun while being played

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[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Now you'll say something like, "but there's a huge difference between being 20 pixels away from spawn point and 1,000 pixels away from spawn point." You would be correct. However, where do we draw the line? And if we do draw the line at, say, 25 pixels (instead of the ~0 pixel proximity to raid mob), how long do you think it will be before another RnF thread is made regarding a guild using THAT rule to their advantage and to someone else's DISadvantage?

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target, while TMO did so by using that lame 15 man rules (as they stated themselves in the past) to completly shut out any form of competition.

Next step is what, 15 people teams on each side dancing in and out the aggro range as the other team comes close? Asking 15+ people to afk sit level 1 alts until the target spawns?

Bring global rotation on most targets already, because this is getting ridiculous. P99 is all about reliving classic experience, and you guys are turning this into a complete different (and unenjoyable) game, pretty much ruining that wonderful server and all efforts put into it. I wonder how long it will take for the staff to see it and take measures to change that fact.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will say that I agree with the OP that if you are going to use the rule to have the gms award you the "camp" then you should be required to maintain your camp. Moving the 15 away the second the other guild moves along is pretty lame and for anything else would be considering leaving your camp. The discouragement for using this rule is that it requires a great deal of dedication and effort to get the mob as well as a more difficult encounter.

First, we had upwards of 60 people ON spawn, including Enraptured.

Second, when we moved away from the spawn point after BDA abandoned the raid, BDA had the option to return. They did not.

Third, BDA could have just as easily used the 15-man rule to their advantage when they saw all of us logging in on the ledge. They did not.

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

Our raid leader suggested we concede the mob based on the rules. I said that we even considered using that rule our selves but decided it not worth it. Obvious conclusion, BDA is full of halfwits who do not understand the rules.

The difference is we think that the spirit of the law should be upheld and you use the letter of the law. It is what it is, tmo got the kill and loots.

@ autotune: You are correct we prolly should have stayed there and watched tmo's 15 wipe or force them to keep their entire force there. Though now they are also sitting on prot which takes away a big chunk of the motivation for clearing juggs away and people are understandably frustrated by the situation and would rather just get away from it. Not to mention staying there just to make tmo's force stay logged in seems kinda lame.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target, while TMO did so by using that lame 15 man rules (as they stated themselves in the past) to completly shut out any form of competition.

Next step is what, 15 people teams on each side dancing in and out the aggro range as the other team comes close? Asking 15+ people to afk sit level 1 alts until the target spawns?

Bring global rotation on most targets already, because this is getting ridiculous. P99 is all about reliving classic experience, and you guys are turning this into a complete different (and unenjoyable) game, pretty much ruining that wonderful server and all efforts put into it. I wonder how long it will take for the staff to see it and take measures to change that fact.

15man rule isn't new
poopsocking isn't new

GMs have known about it for awhile, longer than the last 8months.

the only people surprised at this are the new people.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to mention staying there just to make tmo's force stay logged in seems kinda lame.

but keeping 40 logged in to poopsock and try to force a cockblock on another guild isn't lame?

Tell me how BDA wanted TMO to react to having 40 poopsock just outside Trakanon's aggro radius?

I see.
1) use 15man rule (was used)
2) log 40 in with BDA and play an inching game
3) give BDA all rights on Trak because they are poopsocking and may lead to an FTE dispute (GM involvement)

If you see another, chime in on it.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Interesting proposition. If you invoke the 15 man rule you have to use those 15 to kill it within 15 minutes, I likey!

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target

This is exactly the point. BDA could not have claimed Trak as theirs given the letter of the law based upon their proximity to Trak spawn. Their failure should not somehow be exaggerated to include a TMO failure. It is what it is. Move on.