Which is the more active class, Enchanter or Bard / How to play them?

[Pescador]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is terrible advice. No bard should ever use song macros as youll at max only ever twist 3 songs reliably without buffs dropping. If a add pops up, need to have mez / charm ready. If a song misses a note, need to be ready to cast it again immediately. If you have a clicky (i.e. BoH) need to stop cast to click.

It's easy to twist 5 songs with a stopsong / cast # macro. Also, you can click BoH during the delay between stopsong and cast, so you don't even need to interrupt your rhythm.

The additional fraction of a second that double tapping provides isn't worth clicking twice as much, imo, especially since you can still keep 4 songs up 100% of the time. 5 is really only needed for special cases like multi-mob mezzes while maintaining buffs or something. If I'm grouping for 5 hours in Seb I'm not going to be maintaining a 5 song twist no matter what hotkey system I'm using. Plus, as soon as you throw in mezzes, charms, or bashes, you're better off with 3-4 songs anyways where double tapping offers no practical advantage.

[Egilmn]

Legidias is like a cantankerous old-timer who doesn't seem to understand how /st or /stopsong works, so he will argue with you regardless of how much better your advice is. If he just makes a song macro for each song like the way I said, then he will understand and wonder what he has been doing all this time as a bard.

So will all of the other 11, 22, 33 tappers.

[Legidias]

Originally Posted by Pescador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's easy to twist 5 songs with a stopsong / cast # macro.

Nope. Its just a pure time issue with the macro commands. You'll always have the last buff drop off as you cast the 'extra' song if you use macros.

And keep bein the lazy 3 song twist bard Egil. Lol @ "better" advice to make twisting slower. I never argued that its way easier to use macro. Simply for min/max it will never be the best method.

Anyways, back to the original point of the thread, the fact that we can debate purely on how much speed is necessary in twisting should show that bards are more active.

[zanderklocke]

Come read about my surgery on my wrist due to playing a bard! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=176915

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest though, the kiting with my hand on the mouse moving in a circle repetitively a few years ago is what messed it up my wrist. I can remember one session when I was leveling up in South Karana in 2012, and my wrist felt super numb/sore after like an hour of kiting. I squeezed my wrist until it made a popping noise, much the same as knuckles make a popping noise when someone cracks their knuckles. I then went right back to leveling for another hour or two. Over time, kiting aggravated and created a ganglion cyst in my wrist. The repetitive tapping of keys to twist songs never really affected my body at all. I got the ganglion cyst removed, as seen above, but it came back. :/

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come read about my surgery on my wrist due to playing a bard! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=176915

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest though, the kiting with my hand on the mouse moving in a circle repetitively a few years ago is what messed it up my wrist. I can remember one session when I was leveling up in South Karana in 2012, and my wrist felt super numb/sore after like an hour of kiting. I squeezed my wrist until it made a popping noise, much the same as knuckles make a popping noise when someone cracks their knuckles. I then went right back to leveling for another hour or two. Over time, kiting aggravated and created a ganglion cyst in my wrist. The repetitive tapping of keys to twist songs never really affected my body at all. I got the ganglion cyst removed, as seen above, but it came back. :/

Did you explain this to the nurses in the hospital room when they asked how you hurt your wrist, or did you do the smart thing and claim it was from your extensive MMA career?

[Raavak]

I had a similar issue. After years of playing wizard I had to get a butt replacement.

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want maximum barding, the shift or other button + numbers doesnt work well at all. Even 11 --> 22 wont get max buffs because that little delay in clicking same key means dropping a fifth buff. Need to use another key so that you can press intended song key immediately after, i.e. 21,32,13 (for twisting songs 1, 2, and 3).

Hi Legidias,

There is some miscommunication here but what is clear is that you care about actually playing a Bard well!

So when I say shift+#, then a #, the shift+# is to turn the hotkey page and this is done while channeling your first song so it doesn't add time to the actual twist. All this is doing is keeping the buttons you have to press right next to WASD.

So as example on page 1 you would have 1, 2, 3, 4 as songs 1, 2, 3, 4 ..

then on page 2 you'd now have 1, 2, 3, 4 as songs 5, 6, 7, 8 of your spell slots.

SHIFT+1 or SHIFT+2 is just turning the page and changing whether your 1-4 keys will be songs 1-4 or songs 5-8. You wouldn't turn the page just before your song is done channeling but well in advance.

This can be used with or without /stopsong. If I were twisting songs 1-4, and 6 with Legidias' method it might be something like.... 2-1, 3-2, 4-3, 3-4 (Shift+2 while this song is now channeling), 1-2 (which would now start channeling song 6, where you'd then SHIFT+1 to go back to page 1).

If you use /stopsong then it would just look like 1, 2, 3, 4 (shift+2 during channel), 5 (shift+1 during channel), etc. You're going to have some drop-off though on the 5th song when you use /stopsong.

The point is just to keep all of your songs in the 1, 2, 3, and 4 slots because of their proximity to WASD.

If you have one of those mice with a zillion buttons then you can probably ignore all this.



As far as /stopsong goes...

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

keep bein the lazy 3 song twist bard Egil.

You can do 4 songs (not 3) 100% with ease when using stopsong macros. You can have a 5th song but it will apply as the first one drops off just as you say.

Originally Posted by Egilmn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So will all of the other 11, 22, 33 tappers.

but he isn't:

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even 11, 22, 33 is slower than using another key to stop a song then casting another one.

Yes. It will always be faster to press 2 different keys because of how the computer keyboard registers. This is why quality digital pianos have added a 3rd sensor to mimic the double escapement action of a real piano - allowing you to quickly repeat a note without having to fully release it.

Originally Posted by Legidias

i.e. 21,32,13 (for twisting songs 1, 2, and 3).

The only change I'd make is 43 or 23 instead of 31. It's easier and faster to use keys adjacent to one another.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyways, back to the original point of the thread, the fact that we can debate purely on how much speed is necessary in twisting should show that bards are more active.

Yup!

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard songs are not great - no reason to twist 5 when all anyone wants 55+ is Cantina and maybe a damage shield...Bards are inferior to almost every other class in the game for any purpose besides running in circles killing low/mid level trash

Why you drop a bomb on the bards? This was rude bro.

[Borak]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why you drop a bomb on the bards? This was rude bro.

It's hard to take someone seriously when they've probably seen the icon on their screen for hours on end and can't remember it's spelled Cantana, not Cantina.

I mean, when "Bards are inferior to almost every other class in the game for any purpose", why ask them for resist songs on certain encounters, when so many other classes can do resists better? Why do rogues and monks keep asking to group with epic'd bards on raids, I'm at a loss! /s

I am reminded of an old BASF commercial that used to air 15-20 years ago. The tagline was this: 'BASF. We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better.'

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Borak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's hard to take someone seriously when they've probably seen the icon on their screen for hours on end and can't remember it's spelled Cantana, not Cantina.

I mean, when "Bards are inferior to almost every other class in the game for any purpose", why ask them for resist songs on certain encounters, when so many other classes can do resists better? Why do rogues and monks keep asking to group with epic'd bards on raids, I'm at a loss! /s

I am reminded of an old BASF commercial that used to air 15-20 years ago. The tagline was this: 'BASF. We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better.'

I was surprised, I seen bard-haters but it's usually aimed at the swarmkiters not the group bards.