ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Mandalore93]

Dornish "master plan" requires that Doran is either a master or knows what a plan is. Even attributing all the knowledge in the world possible to him at the ending of Robert's Rebellion he's still allying himself to an exiled house (The Targaryens) with absolutely no power against the very solid power block of the Rebellion (The Vale, The North, The Riverlands, Stormlands, and the Westerlands) with only Dorne (the weakest of the kingdoms) at his call for sure and possibly the Reach. He wouldn't be able to call on the Golden Company (since they're Blackfire supporters/loyalists) and even at the start of AGOT it's clear that Viseris would never be a great commander of men. Only does the introduction of magic into the world allow Danny to do anything ever.

[beyondinfin]

Did you guys hear about this little tidbit...Jan 23-29th, you can see GAME OF THRONES IN IMAX!

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/06/g...imax-theaters/

It will be epsiodes 9 and 10 from season 4...and a season 5 trailer! Hope to god they play it near me.

[Mandalore93]

Much more important than the stupid show is that GRRM's publisher tweeted that TWOW is not on her 2015 schedule.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dornish "master plan" requires that Doran is either a master or knows what a plan is. Even attributing all the knowledge in the world possible to him at the ending of Robert's Rebellion he's still allying himself to an exiled house (The Targaryens) with absolutely no power against the very solid power block of the Rebellion (The Vale, The North, The Riverlands, Stormlands, and the Westerlands) with only Dorne (the weakest of the kingdoms) at his call for sure and possibly the Reach. He wouldn't be able to call on the Golden Company (since they're Blackfire supporters/loyalists) and even at the start of AGOT it's clear that Viseris would never be a great commander of men. Only does the introduction of magic into the world allow Danny to do anything ever.

Doran is extremely smart. theres a much better chance that we as readers are purposely being left in the dark, than there is of Doran not being competent. Tywin even says "Doran is a cautious man, a reasoned man, subtle, deliberate, even indolent to a degree. He is a man who weighs the consequences of every word and every action". Tywin knew who was worth worrying about and who wasn't. GRRM also says: "Doran plays to win, whether at cyvasse or the game of thrones". i assure you that Doran Martell is no scrub with a half assed plan. and odds are, when Illyrio mentions to Varys that "this is no longer a game for two players", hes implying that at one time, it was. i think Doran has been that other player. the problem is, we actually dont know what either of them truly want.

[Mandalore93]

Tywin is certainly a normally good judge of character. However he is wrong about quite a few things. For one he leaves his daughter in charge as regent in King's Landing. He's wrong about Jaime wanting to leave the King's Guard. He's wrong about Tyrion's abilities. He's wrong about Robb's abilities.

I have no doubt that Doran is at least an able domestic ruler. However his head just doesn't seem in the game at all. He's literally blaming everyone for the death of his sister but the person responsible. He apparently never stops to think "hmm, how come my sister and her children didn't go with the rest of the royal household to Dragonstone where the king sent his own family? Hmm. Well, that's clearly not a valid thought to have. MAINLY FUCK THE REBELS FOR DOING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EVEN UNCOMMON IN THIS UNIVERSE OR IN IT'S MEDIEVAL EQUIVALENT"

On top of that, I just don't think there's any world in which it would be possible for Doran's power block to break Bobby B's. Bobby B's power is pretty concentrated in comparison to whatever Doran can bring to bear. He'd literally have to foretell the birth of the dragons to think he'd have any realistic shot at this. This idea of plotting and scheming to put either the red/black dragon child on the throne is a great plot but it requires very specific machinery to make it look even remotely realistic. Even now in the current storyline most people have the black dragon child written off.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by beyondinfin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you guys hear about this little tidbit...Jan 23-29th, you can see GAME OF THRONES IN IMAX!

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/06/g...imax-theaters/

It will be epsiodes 9 and 10 from season 4...and a season 5 trailer! Hope to god they play it near me.

Good info, thanks bud.

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As for the debate about Doran, I'd have to agree with Sirken. He seems to be one of the more levelheaded and contemplative characters in the book, and he has more reason to be concerned about the outcome of the War of Five Kings than most, given the fate of his brother and sister. He's been scheming for a while.... whether he'll succeed, who knows. You're right about one thing though Mandalore, whatever he's plotting, won't have to do with military. I don't think we'll see a military alliance between the forces of Dorne and a sellsword company taking the Iron Throne, but I do think the Prince of Dorne is up to something much more subtle, and much more likely to be successful than that.

Either way, I took away from the text that Doran was one of the more intelligent characters. When I read the books, he was one of the few people that I respected but wasn't actually cheering for, mainly because I have no clue what he's up to. I seriously doubt, however, that he won't be important at the end.

PS: I don't think Doran hates the rebels because of what happened, I think he hates the Lannister's because of what they did to Elia. Obviously, an heir to the throne couldn't be left alive, but you can't expect reason to come into this. I'd want revenge too.

[Sidelle]

I've been neglecting this thread for a while and put re-reading ASOIAF on the back burner because goddammit I hate THIS ENDLESS WAITING for everything to unfold in upcoming books! It makes me crazy. Same goes for my second favorite series of books, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon. Her and GRRM shouldn't be allowed to leave their houses until they give us moar books! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, been reading The Sunne In Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman in the meantime. It's "historical fiction" but she's pretty good at bringing the War of the Roses to life by weaving her story in with factual events of the war and the politics of that period in England.

[Mandalore93]

If you like historical fiction have you ever read any of Conn Iggulden's work? Absolutely loved all of his series. Bernard Cornwell also has some good work but I'm not a huge fan.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you like historical fiction have you ever read any of Conn Iggulden's work? Absolutely loved all of his series. Bernard Cornwell also has some good work but I'm not a huge fan.

Good recommendation, the emperor and conqueror series look interesting

I also like Ken Follett for historical fiction, although he peaked with Pillars of the Earth

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you like historical fiction have you ever read any of Conn Iggulden's work? Absolutely loved all of his series. Bernard Cornwell also has some good work but I'm not a huge fan.

Have not read these so will check it out. Thanks for the suggestions - I am constantly looking for new books these days and stories based on real historical events have always been my favorites.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good recommendation, the emperor and conqueror series look interesting

I also like Ken Follett for historical fiction, although he peaked with Pillars of the Earth

Forgot about Pillars of the Earth. First heard about it when they made the mini-series and vaguely remember making a mental note to read it but I forgot, so thanks. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]