Liberalism = Mental Disorder

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FYI, Liberalism means 'for liberty'. It originally meant libertarianism, and then progressives stole our word despite not matching its meaning at all.

As if I weren't fond enough of you enough already for being a sweet chanter and being in a guild designed to have fun by being challenged, you're a freaking libertarian too? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ephirith]

2016: America elects libertarian president and libertarians control majorities in the house and senate.

2017: Federal government disbands, CDC, FEMA, EPA, USDA, FDIC, the Fed, and various other regulatory programs and agencies. Shortly thereafter ends any sort of regulation of international trade.

2018: Ends medicare, social security, and veterans administration. Government fully privatizes education and healthcare, ends state and federal grants for college education and infrastructure, and reaffirms at-will employment by abolishing minimum wage laws, child labor laws, worker safety laws, and laws prohibiting various forms of discrimination. (The free market has the best answers for people with disabilities). These issues are the realm of tort law!

2019: Government dramatically lowers taxes and reforms the tax code, budget deficit is being paid off. Administration cuts military spending by 90%, closes bases overseas, and adopts a non-interventionist foreign policy.

2020: Libertarians revel in libertarian paradise, re-elect administration.

2021: Progressive governments/economies in the European Union, continue spending heavily on education investment and government subsidies of renewable energy. For a long time renewable energy sources are not competitive in a free market, but these governments, acting outside market influence, exercise centralized planning.

2022: A spike in consumption in the now unregulated United States in the last decade, along with the exponential growth of energy use in China, India, Indonesia, and Brazil has depleted fossil fuel reserves more quickly than expected and prices start to skyrocket.

2023: The price of petroleum strangles the US economy as private entities scramble to develop efficient infrastructure and now-competitive renewable energy. Meanwhile, Europe is able to sustain a boom in manufacturing and general economic well-being due to dramatically lower energy costs and efficient urban planning/mass transit.

2024: Velious is released on p99.

2025: The thriving European economy pulls further ahead of the United States than it already was in 2012, in nearly every metric for human development and welfare.

2026: Ron Paul admits he hates ******s and then dies. In his hand is a worn-out copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged; some of the pages are stuck together.

That is how I feel about libertarianism.

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by Diggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More of this please.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2016: America elects libertarian president and libertarians control majorities in the house and senate.

.... stuff

That is how I feel about libertarianism.

So your main argument against libertarianism is that it will make us so productive that we'll run out of fossil fuels sooner? That's quite the damning criticism.

Also, what makes you think that we'd choose fossil fuels over other sources of energy? Keep in mind that part of libertarian idealogy is the removal of all subsidies, including those to oil companies.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2025: The thriving European economy pulls further ahead of the United States than it already was in 2012, in nearly every metric for human development and welfare.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Exactly 2 of 45 European countries (min population: 35,000) rank higher than the US in Human Development Index.

y u hate amurrica?

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, what makes you think that we'd choose fossil fuels over other sources of energy? Keep in mind that part of libertarian idealogy is the removal of all subsidies, including those to oil companies.

You probably shouldn't take what I said all that seriously, but to answer your question: fossil fuels are so amazingly efficient as a source of energy that in an unfettered market it is almost impossible for many renewable sources to compete.

You might say-- well, when prices for rapidly-depleting fossil fuels start to bloat, and forward-thinking corporations take notice, then the market will facilitate renewable energy supplementation.

Meanwhile, China and the European Union have seen massive, proactive investments in hydro-electric power, renewable energy, and efficient means of moving people (Mass transit... centralized, efficient urban planning). Which economies do you think would be better suited to weather this transition when it happens?

People already understate the massive amount of assfucking we took in 2007 when gas prices went nuts, hammered disposable incomes and logistical costs, and created conditions of fiscal stress that facilitated the financial crash and recession.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Exactly 2 of 45 European countries (min population: 35,000) rank higher than the US in Human Development Index.

y u hate amurrica?

The USA HDI is distorted by our country's absurd amount of wealth, which is one component of the figure. The figure used to represent wealth in the HDI doesn't adequately account for our horrendous levels of income inequality. Wealth in the USA is concentrated among an oligarchy like you just don't see in many other western nations. Look at the figures for education index and life expectancy index by themselves-- they are a bit less flattering. And to add a little context to the HDI's income figure, look at the GINI coefficient.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You probably shouldn't take what I said all that seriously, but to answer your question: fossil fuels are so amazingly efficient as a source of energy that in an unfettered market it is almost impossible for many renewable sources to compete.

You might say-- well, when prices for rapidly-depleting fossil fuels start to bloat, and forward-thinking corporations take notice, then the market will facilitate renewable energy supplementation.

Meanwhile, China and the European Union have seen massive, proactive investments in hydro-electric power, renewable energy, and efficient means of moving people (Mass transit... centralized, efficient urban planning). Which economies do you think would be better suited to weather this transition when it happens?

People already understate the massive amount of assfucking we took in 2007 when gas prices went nuts, hammered disposable incomes and logistical costs, and created conditions of fiscal stress that facilitated the financial crash and recession.

You are correct that the day will come when it is more expensive to extract fossil fuels from the Earth's crust than to produce energy using other means. When that happens, we can switch over. It's not like building solar cells or wind farms or nuclear plants is some kind of super long term project that requires 50 years of planning. Well, except for nuclear plants. But those only take about 5 years to actually build after 30 years of government red tape. In a libertarian society, we'd rid ourselves of those 30 years. And keep in mind that the transition is something that will be gradual and fairly predictable. It's not like there's some giant oil tank out there and one day we'll find it has run dry.

Which economy would be best to weather the transition? I'd say the one that hasn't hobbled itself for decades waiting for the transition. If fossil fuels are wildly more efficient as you state, then any economy focusing on other sources of energy will be dramatically less productive. Also, we aren't really sure yet what will be the most efficient non-carbon energy source. For all we know, there will be some breakthrough in solar panels in 10 years that will render all other energy sources worthless. Those countries who had invested so many resources into wind farms and other power sources would then be less able to take advantage of the new technology.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The USA HDI is distorted by our country's absurd amount of wealth, which is one component of the figure. The figure used to represent wealth in the HDI doesn't adequately account for our horrendous levels of income inequality. Wealth in the USA is concentrated among an oligarchy like you just don't see in many other western nations. Look at the figures for education index and life expectancy index by themselves-- they are a bit less flattering. And to add a little context to the HDI's income figure, look at the GINI coefficient.

We're #5 in education index, behind just Norway and Ireland from Europe. We're actually higher in education index than income index, where we're 10th, ahead of all of Europe but Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, and Norway.

[Black Jesus]

every1 complain american education so bad but then u look at euro grade scales and 40% is a C I'm like wut fukn idiots