Regarding the patch and torched pets - Page 2

Daldaen · #11 06-12-2015, 12:59 PM

He is likely a red player complaining about classic features broken on red in an effort to balance PvP. Like pets not innately dual wielding.

Pets of the proper level innately dual wield on Blue. 49/53 pets always DW.

Now... They shouldn't DW more often when wielding weapons, weapons should only impact their max damage (only if the max damage on the weapon exceeds their innate max damage, level 49/53 pets this almost is never the case), OR it gives them the ability to proc the weapon's effect.

I haven't tested giving my Necro pet weapons, maybe I should though. It shouldn't make it DW more though from what I recall. If you have evidence that it should I'd love to see it however.

dafier · #12 06-12-2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He is likely a red player complaining about classic features broken on red in an effort to balance PvP. Like pets not innately dual wielding.

Pets of the proper level innately dual wield on Blue. 49/53 pets always DW.

Now... They shouldn't DW more often when wielding weapons, weapons should only impact their max damage (only if the max damage on the weapon exceeds their innate max damage, level 49/53 pets this almost is never the case), OR it gives them the ability to proc the weapon's effect.

I haven't tested giving my Necro pet weapons, maybe I should though. It shouldn't make it DW more though from what I recall. If you have evidence that it should I'd love to see it however.

I need to get a parser for sure. This is only my visual that I am sharing and what I see is obvious enough to catch.

Honestly I don't like summoning weapons for my pet because it's a waste of time. I wouldn't mind summoning swords (with the ward summon proc) if I am fighting elementals though.

I'll try to get back to you with a parse

Uteunayr · #13 06-12-2015, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

alot of misinformation in this thread.

uteinayr - giving a level 1 pet 2 weapons will NOT cause him to actually dual weild. he'll hold 2 weapons but wont use his offhand until a much higher level (the level they are actually gain the dual weild skill - 34). But for necros, "Naturally dual weidling bare hands" is broken here, and that's the reason why necros need to give their pets weapons 34+. Because there's a bug here that basically makes them not dual weild like they are suppose to Unless you give them 2 weapons.

also, whether or not a torch is better than 2 weapons - there is a myth that the torch caused dual weild to trigger every swing but two weapons would not trigger the dual weild mechanic on every swing. that's probably true.

Yup, I was wrong in my assumption. I can confirn Grimjaw is correct. I had a low level necromancer named Plagueus attack me with a level 1 pet given 2x low level iksar rusty weapons. At no point did attacks deviate from a 3 second interval, not any second swings occur. Grimjaw is correct, and pets will not Dual Wield if given two weapons.

Log evidence:
[Fri Jun 12 13:09:52 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:09:55 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:09:58 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:01 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:04 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:07 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:10 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:13 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:16 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:19 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:22 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:25 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:28 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:31 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:34 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:37 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:40 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:43 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:46 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:49 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:52 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:55 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:10:58 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:01 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:04 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:07 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:10 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:13 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:16 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:19 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:22 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:25 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:28 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:31 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:34 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:37 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:40 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:43 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:46 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:49 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:52 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:55 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:11:58 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:01 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:04 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:07 2015] Zeneker slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:10 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:13 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:16 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:19 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:23 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:25 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:29 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:31 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:34 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:37 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:40 2015] Zeneker tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 13:12:42 2015] Zeneker says 'Sorry, Master..calming down.'

Man0warr · #14 06-12-2015, 02:42 PM

Enchanters used torches (or any offhand only item) to force charmed NPCs to duel wield - because they don't always under normal circumstances.

Not sure how that applies to PC pets though.

Pyrocat · #15 06-12-2015, 03:19 PM

Let's break these assumptions up a bit and tackle them one by one. Regardless of class, these should all be true on blue:

Low level summoned pets will not dual wield, even when given 2 weapons.

Higher level summoned pets will dual wield, without the need for 2 weapons.

Giving a summoned pet a low delay weapon will not increase the speed of it's attacks.

Giving a summoned pet an extraordinarily high damage will increase it's damage, but this becomes harder to do as you level up and your pet's natural damage goes up.

Giving a summoned pet 2 weapons is a waste of time unless they are very high damage or have a proc, as it will not affect their ability to dual wield.

Charmed pets, regardless of level, will not dual wield unless given 2 weapons.

All of those are, as far as I know, true. The patch shouldn't have changed anything regarding these assumptions. The only thing the patch should have changed was the shortcut of giving your pet a torch instead of 2 weapons, thus reducing the amount of weapons you'd need to carry around to get your charmed pet to dual wield.

Man0warr · #16 06-12-2015, 04:10 PM

Combined with the ability for charmed NPCs to drop items given to them, it's not a big deal.

If they made this change first it would have sucked.

Grimjaw · #17 06-12-2015, 04:50 PM

And these two points are incorrect on RED Server for summoned necro pets. they act more like charmed pets where you must give them weapons in order to dual wield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Higher level summoned pets will dual wield, without the need for 2 weapons.

Giving a summoned pet 2 weapons is a waste of time unless they are very high damage or have a proc, as it will not affect their ability to dual wield.

Uteunayr · #18 06-12-2015, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's break these assumptions up a bit and tackle them one by one. Regardless of class, these should all be true on blue:

Low level summoned pets will not dual wield, even when given 2 weapons.

Higher level summoned pets will dual wield, without the need for 2 weapons.

Giving a summoned pet a low delay weapon will not increase the speed of it's attacks.

Giving a summoned pet an extraordinarily high damage will increase it's damage, but this becomes harder to do as you level up and your pet's natural damage goes up.

Giving a summoned pet 2 weapons is a waste of time unless they are very high damage or have a proc, as it will not affect their ability to dual wield.

Charmed pets, regardless of level, will not dual wield unless given 2 weapons.

All of those are, as far as I know, true. The patch shouldn't have changed anything regarding these assumptions. The only thing the patch should have changed was the shortcut of giving your pet a torch instead of 2 weapons, thus reducing the amount of weapons you'd need to carry around to get your charmed pet to dual wield.

#1 was tested and found to be accurate. The logs for that are above.

I wanted to test #3 (low delay weapon), so I summoned a level 49 Invoke Death, and attacked a fear kited guard in EFP. Logs are at the end of this post, but generally show attacks every 2-3 seconds. I then gave the same pet on the same target a Rusty Two Handed Sword, with Delay 50. Again, the logs will be after this, but attacks occurred still every 2-3 seconds. So I believe #3 holds up as true, the delay of a weapon given to a pet has no impact on pet attack speed.

So I can say that both #1 and #3 on this list are accurate, and not just assumptions.

One part that confuses me on these logs is in the 2-handed section, where it says:

[Fri Jun 12 17:10:13 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:13 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 47 points of damage.

What is the attack that "hits" the target? Bashes are "bashed", which I removed. Maybe there are kicks mixed in here, and instead of saying "kicks...", it says "hits..."

Logs:

[Fri Jun 12 17:08:54 2015] Gobartik tells you, 'Attacking Guard Hirazen Master.'
[Fri Jun 12 17:08:57 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:08:57 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:08:59 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 25 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:08:59 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:08:59 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:02 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 45 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:04 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:04 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:07 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:07 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:07 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:09 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:09 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:12 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:12 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:14 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:14 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:16 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:16 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:19 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:19 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:21 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:24 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:24 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:24 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 43 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:24 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:26 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:26 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:26 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 49 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:29 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:29 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:31 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:31 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:34 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 33 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:34 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:34 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:34 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:36 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:36 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 23 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:39 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:39 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:09:43 2015] You say, 'BREAK'

Total Damage: 855.
Number of Attacks: 41
Average: 20.8536 per attack.

Rusty 2h given to pet.

[Fri Jun 12 17:10:11 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:13 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:13 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:16 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 41 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:16 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:16 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:18 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:21 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 25 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:21 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:21 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:23 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 37 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:26 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 21 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:26 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:28 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:31 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:31 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:31 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:33 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:33 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:35 2015] Gobartik kicks Guard Hirazen for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:35 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:35 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:35 2015] Gobartik hits Guard Hirazen for 41 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:56 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:58 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:10:58 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:01 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:01 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:03 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:06 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:06 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 39 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:06 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:08 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 41 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:08 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:11 2015] Gobartik tries to slash Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:11 2015] Gobartik tries to hit Guard Hirazen, but misses!
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:13 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 35 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:13 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:16 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Jun 12 17:11:16 2015] Gobartik slashes Guard Hirazen for 51 points of damage.

Total Damage: 918
Number of Attacks: 40
Average: 22.95 per attack. Not significantly different enough, this easily just falls into the realm of error, so it doesn't seem that low weapon damage lowers pet damage either.

Rayzor84 · #19 06-12-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's break these assumptions up a bit and tackle them one by one. Regardless of class, these should all be true on blue:

Low level summoned pets will not dual wield, even when given 2 weapons.

Higher level summoned pets will dual wield, without the need for 2 weapons.

Giving a summoned pet a low delay weapon will not increase the speed of it's attacks.

Giving a summoned pet an extraordinarily high damage will increase it's damage, but this becomes harder to do as you level up and your pet's natural damage goes up.

Giving a summoned pet 2 weapons is a waste of time unless they are very high damage or have a proc, as it will not affect their ability to dual wield.

Charmed pets, regardless of level, will not dual wield unless given 2 weapons.

All of those are, as far as I know, true. The patch shouldn't have changed anything regarding these assumptions. The only thing the patch should have changed was the shortcut of giving your pet a torch instead of 2 weapons, thus reducing the amount of weapons you'd need to carry around to get your charmed pet to dual wield.

I camped HS quite a bit, and giving a pet a torch isn't the same as 2 weapons. They do far more damage over tine. Even if I charm a pet with a shield, it murders normal mobs in comparison, so the offhand non weapon absolutely increased killing power.

Man0warr · #20 06-12-2015, 07:32 PM

NPCs can melee even while holding non-weapons, that's always been the case. All the torch (or shield) does is trigger them to use their offhand and thus dual wield.