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View Poll Results: Is variance still needed?
Yes, it promotes "competition" 75 29.18%
No, its an unneccesary non-classic time sink 182 70.82%
Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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  #821  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Sweetbaby Jesus Sweetbaby Jesus is offline
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Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Poop-socking is far better for server health than one mega-guild dominating content by perma-tracking 96 hour windows and having 30 raiders available at any time of any day. But poop-socking could be solved, too. Instead of the silly "first raid force" rule that resulted in hours upon hours of poop-socking, just make it FTE. It will take guilds 30 minutes to arrive, buff, and wait on a pop. Every guild that wants a shot can show up and pray for FTE, same as everyone else. After a few weeks of that absolute misery, you'd have a rotation. It absolutely would alleviate the dominance of the top guilds, by the way, if implemented by FTE rather than first raid force. TMO can be as big and mobile and "determined" as they want. If 150 people from 5 different guilds are sitting on VS's spawn point hoping for FTE, TMO's odds are pretty crappy relative to the 90% they're claiming now. Ditto for every other mob. Obviously that scenario would be an absolute mess, but that's the point. Things have to get bad before they can get better. EQ Classic raiding worked because everyone had the power to make life miserable for everyone else unless there was at least some degree of cooperation. That created a community. The current rules minimize friction and make GMs' lives easier, but they do that by creating a bastardized version of EQ raiding. Most raid mobs are uncontested because the current rules just threw progressively more ridiculous obstacles in the way of raid mobs until only one guild was willing to keep trying. I don't see what the issue would be with classic variance and FTE rules. If you're worried about disputes, implement a FTE-shout. I don't understand how there can be any disagreement that the current raiding scene is broken. There's only one raiding guild, and they had 77 members at an uncontested raid last night. Does that sound classic to anyone?
This is exactly what I've been trying to get across. It'll be a huge mess at first but it wouldn't take long for the players to get sick of it and work together to make the things better.
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  #822  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:47 PM
arsenalpow arsenalpow is offline
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If you want change boycott TMO.

Do not heal, buff, rez, port, buy-from, sell-to, communicate-with anyone that is tagged TMO. Period. Anytime you help TMO in any way you are condoning their attitude towards the rest of the server and the unethical actions they take.

Let TMO sustain themselves as a separate entity apart from the rest of the p99 community because TMO has no use for the rest of us.

Every. Single. Guild. On the server is willing to come to the table for the betterment of the server, except TMO. That speaks for itself.

Some of you may counter with "we'll not everyone in TMO is a dbag" and that's a perfectly true statement, but those upstanding individuals don't challenge their own leadership when shady shit happens. Staying silent to preserve the status quo (keeping the pixels flowing) is all that matters to them, the rest of us can fuck off. So you want to experience Veeshan's Peak? Gotta kill Trak first, good luck with that. Even if TMO wipes at Trak and your guild does kill it they FTE rules lawyer you out of the kill. Even if you do get enough keys to mount a VP force TMO can always legally train your raid. Yes, VP is a no GM interference zone, they can literally train the piss out of you so you can never raid in VP, the only recourse is to train them back, feel free to stoop to their despicable level.

BDA is willing to help anyone (except TMO, they don't need anyone but themselves) kill anything in our power, just get in contact with an officer and we'll arrange a time to assist. See you in Norrath.
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  #823  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:48 PM
Briscoe Briscoe is offline
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First in before RNF.
  #824  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Lostprophets Lostprophets is offline
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Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
TLDR;
I disagree with every statement you just wrote about TMO, if you have issues there check ur current guild roster and their past history with TMO.

TMO has offered plenty of people Childs tears for their shaman epics, Rotting fear loot, hell, Eccezan even invited me to kill Sev with them one day. TMO might be holding the ropes as top guild and get all the loot now, but they aren't a bad bunch if you get to know them, and not be dicks to them. the variance system is the problem, not them.

However, that's not even the issue here so please don't bring flaming into this thread, this is a serious matter..take that garb to RnF.
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Last edited by Lostprophets; 09-20-2012 at 03:02 PM..
  #825  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Asher Asher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If you want change boycott TMO.

Do not heal, buff, rez, port, buy-from, sell-to, communicate-with anyone that is tagged TMO. Period. Anytime you help TMO in any way you are condoning their attitude towards the rest of the server and the unethical actions they take.

Let TMO sustain themselves as a separate entity apart from the rest of the p99 community because TMO has no use for the rest of us.

Every. Single. Guild. On the server is willing to come to the table for the betterment of the server, except TMO. That speaks for itself.

Some of you may counter with "we'll not everyone in TMO is a dbag" and that's a perfectly true statement, but those upstanding individuals don't challenge their own leadership when shady shit happens. Staying silent to preserve the status quo (keeping the pixels flowing) is all that matters to them, the rest of us can fuck off. So you want to experience Veeshan's Peak? Gotta kill Trak first, good luck with that. Even if TMO wipes at Trak and your guild does kill it they FTE rules lawyer you out of the kill. Even if you do get enough keys to mount a VP force TMO can always legally train your raid. Yes, VP is a no GM interference zone, they can literally train the piss out of you so you can never raid in VP, the only recourse is to train them back, feel free to stoop to their despicable level.

BDA is willing to help anyone (except TMO, they don't need anyone but themselves) kill anything in our power, just get in contact with an officer and we'll arrange a time to assist. See you in Norrath.
I say, hate the guild policies and not the people. Generally, everyone I talk to in TMO is very kind and helpful. This is very frustrating and IMO their policy on VP training is also horrible. They get away with it with the GMs blessing so they feel perfectly ok in doing so.

The GMs need to stop sponsoring this/these horrible practices that ruin the raid environment for a majority of the server.

The no GM assistance for VP on live was meant for corpse rots or being trapped unable to get out etc etc. GMs on live would not tolerate training and BS that is permitted here and the staff of p99 really took the easy way out on this.

Lets hope they listen to the people and stop these unclassic practices that favour the large zergy/dedicated 96 hour tracker guilds.

Asher
  #826  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Asher Asher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I disagree with every statement you just wrote about TMO, if you have issues there check ur current guild roster and their past history with TMO.

TMO has offered plenty of people Childs tears for their shaman epics, Rotting fear loot, hell, Eccezan even invited me to kill Sev with them one day. TMO might be holding the ropes as top guild and get all the loot now, but they aren't a bad bunch if you get to know them, and not be dicks to them. the variance system is the problem, not them.

However, that's not even the issue here so please don't bring flaming into this thread, this is a serious matter..take that garb to RnF.
You think they would be as nice to us if they felt threatened by us? They know Taken is small so they don't mind throwing us a small bone once and awhile. If we were BDAs size I think things would be different.

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  #827  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:07 PM
arsenalpow arsenalpow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I disagree with every statement you just wrote, if you have issues there check ur current guild roster and their past history with TMO.

TMO has offered plenty of people Childs tears for their shaman epics, Rotting fear loot, hell, Eccezan even invited me to kill Sev with them one day. TMO might be holding the ropes as top guild and get all the loot now, but they aren't a bad bunch if you get to know them, and not be dicks to them. the variance system is the problem, not them.

However, that's not even the issue here so please don't bring flaming into this thread, this is a serious matter..take that garb to RnF.
I appreciate that a serious conversation attempted to spawn from this thread but Sirken and Rogean already weighed in haven't they? Logically we should turn our attention to something more feasible. A rotation with specific rules would fix this entirely and I'm willing to bet every single guild would agree except for TMO.

Rotate between the guilds, give them a 30min timer to engage and then it turns into FTE. TMO would still get every single non prime time kill because no one else has the ability to field numbers like they do and the other guilds would at least have a shot at content.

Regarding your relations with TMO, I'm happy that you've experienced the better side, but don't come between any loot they are actively chasing, you'll see a much different side of them.
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  #828  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:07 PM
Sweetbaby Jesus Sweetbaby Jesus is offline
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I'm gonna agree with Lostprophets there. It's not really TMOs fault they are thriving in the envirment we all got placed in with variance. They do help out alot of other guilds too, like Lostprophets said, They have given Child's tears to every shaman in my guild for that matter. They have nothing to gain but alot to lose from giving spawns to the rest of the server or going into a rotation so I can see why they refuse. However the fact remains that things need to change. They are only as dominant as they are because of the way raiding is set up on p99. Eliminate variance and have weekly/bi weekly resets and things will change.
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  #829  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:09 PM
Ferok Ferok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbaby Jesus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Eliminate variance and have weekly/bi weekly resets and things will change.
It really is very easy.
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  #830  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:09 PM
Hailto Hailto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yes, VP is a no GM interference zone, they can literally train the piss out of you so you can never raid in VP, the only recourse is to train them back, feel free to stoop to their despicable level.
I obviously don't fully know where you're coming from because im not in BDA. But i'd really like to think that TMO wouldn't train any guild that was in competition with them. Its very obvious that TMO and BDA have some bad blood going back to issues not fully known to me, so while i believe you both probably train each other. Do you really think they would train any guild in competition, even ones with no prior issues, if they somehow managed to get into vp?
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