Game Mechanics: AoN and OT outpost faction

[Caiu]

When I was playing around with an AoN at the overthere outpost a few months ago I noticed I could become non-kos with use of the Amulet and faction clicky neck. Didn't think much of it at the time but it seems that AoN should not be affecting faction. Came across this info while looking at something completely separate but that's the nature of the beast.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...98948101263902

I have this, let me dispell some rumors. First of all, there is NO faction adjustment when you use the illusion. I can walk right through the cleric guild in Felwithe and and still be warmly with everyone.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00580524559602

The Illusion:Skeleton from the AoN (Amulet of Necropotence) no longer improves faction with the Dragoons and skele's in The Overthere.

Confirmed.

Unconfirmed: whether or not the Illusion: Earth ELemental (dropped from the Clay Golem maze in CT) will make you dub or indiff.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00365200477834

I'm pretty sure that skeleton form no longer improves faction with Venril Sathir, and the outpost in the Overthere.

All from 2001 pre-luclin. Seems that it is giving vast faction boosts here on p1999 and it shouldn't at all.

[Izmael]

Even if true, I'd still vouch for the skele illusion faction adjustment to remain in the game.

Whatever makes the game more complex or enjoyable WITHOUT breaking the classic look'n'feel seems to be welcomed by the project managers and that seems to be one of these things.

[Caiu]

Extremely slippy road to go down. I try to present facts or conclusions and why I came to those conclusions. Not researching something or not presenting said research because it would personally inconvenience you is unethical. IMO.

As for the classic feel. It was classic that the guise was nerfed to specific classes so they didn't have such easy access to Neriak. This is the same principle. Very classic.

[Izmael]

Oh I'm KoS to the outpost on all my relevant characters without illusion, in skele, gummybear or Robert Mitchum form. This has nothing to do with me personally.

Just caring about P99 being the only preserved form of enjoyable EQ in the world.

[Erati]

those comments indicate that at some point the AoN very much used to affect faction but was 'nerfed' at some point during Velious but its unclear when

you gotta pin point those nerfs otherwise its speculation from people who dont understand factions

[Caiu]

OK I looked and found something that will help pinpoint when this occured. Actual patch notes wernt very forthcoming.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...99320270230581

Jun 22 2001
The CoB/Lich trick no longer works, they modified the spell months ago so that the illusion doesn't alter faction. Likewise monks can no longer FD and hand them over. Basically unless you are non KOS at the outpost to begin with you'll never be able to do this quest.

From actual EQ patch notes the only thing I can find on there is this bit from February 21, 2001 patch notes. The change could have gone into place at that time and my above quotes does say months ago this would be the correct timeframe.

February 21, 2001
Fixed a bug whereby NPCs would consider the race of a player prior
to the loading of the faction table upon zoning or logging in. This
would cause people to be attacked by things that normally like them.

People on alla stop commenting about the Call of Bones/Lich/AoN method of helping to do the quests in OT around February , 2001 so it's a good bet that it was fixed around that time.
I think the nerf was specific just to skeleton illusions because http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...00695943644056

Nov 28 2001
Collect your braids, huge masses of them... Go to Cazic Thule, get a ball of golem clay.

Earth elemental illusion makes you dubious to outpost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hand in all of your braids, and hope you are now dubious in normal form.

Cali

[supermonk]

if you're talking about a general faction boost and not specific to OT, as an iksar I was able to run through Freeport and bank just from using AoN (until I ruined it with soulfire).

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Hiya --

So AoN - like the necromancer lich form -- is simply Illusion: Skeleton.

It's not that you get a faction boost but that your racial modifier is altered. Racial modifiers, when positive, are usually quite small... something like +50 but often times it will be much less .. +25 or +10. Then there is the possibility for a racial modifier to be neutral (0) which is what wolf form often did for those factions that 'like' wolves and the same likely goes for the factions that 'like' skeletons. So there are circumstances in which using these illusions would appear to have no effect and others where you will have a huge effect.

A) If you were already - by DEFAULT which is an important distinction - non-KOS to a faction that is ok with skeletons (let's say apprehensive) then using skeleton form might appear to have no affect.

B) Now let's say you were KOS (threateningly) by default because your racial modifier gave you -600 ... well now using skeleton form would yield a significant boost for you because you are going from say .. -600 to -25, 0, or whatever the skeleton racial mod might be.

Now as to why 'by default' is so important..

Let's say case A) was a dark elf in Outpost (Venril Sathir) and case B) was a wood elf -- both have no deity or class modifiers (agnostic and neutral class like warrior).

The wood elf can use skeleton form and go from being threateningly to maybe indifferent or apprehensive. However, if the dark elf were also threateningly -- hunted in Karnors like mostly everyone did -- then skeleton for will do nothing for him because it is not his racial modifier that is making him KOS but his personal faction.

Illusions never boost your faction, they only affect ONE of your modifiers. Many people didn't understand this and those posts don't include details like what their consider was at when testing the illusion, their deity or class modifiers, and if they had ever done anything to lower or raise that faction to begin with (personal faction)

On live, illusions are divided into two types - PC illusions and NPC illusions. NPC illusions (wolf, werewolf, elemental, skeleton) no longer affect your racial modifier at all while PC illusions (playable races) still do. This change, however, was not made until 2003.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2003-1.html

April 8, 2003 3:00 am
** Illusions/Shape Change **

We have changed the way that Illusions and Shape Changes work with
respect to faction. The new system is a lot easier to understand than
the old one, so we'll just explain the new one. When changed into the
form of a playable race, characters are treated as if they were a
member of that race. When changed into a non-playable race, characters
retain their own racial factions.

[Caiu]

I wasn't exactly sure how faction wofked when I posted this thread thanks for clearing it up.
Based on these posts AoN and skeleton form were changed to no longer alter the race the NPC used when calculating your consider. Seems they applied this to all NPC illusions later down the line. It wasn't documented in patch notes unfortunately so we have no idea when during 2001 it was changed.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...99320270230581
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00580524559602
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00365200477834

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Originally Posted by Caiu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't exactly sure how faction wofked when I posted this thread thanks for clearing it up.
Based on these posts AoN and skeleton form were changed to no longer alter the race the NPC used when calculating your consider. Seems they applied this to all NPC illusions later down the line. It wasn't documented in patch notes unfortunately so we have no idea when during 2001 it was changed.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...99320270230581
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00580524559602
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/f...00365200477834

Yes, I did read these posts you shared but since they don't give any details like their faction considers before/after using illusion, their race, deity or class and the patch notes show this change occuring much later I will need to do more research.

Change made in 2003: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030408.html

In addition to those folks likely not understanding what I explained in the previous post, there is a lot of false info throughout there. For instance, not being able to
ever do the quest if you are KOS which isn't the case.

I'll look into this more, though.