Vanguard: Sago Of Hero's

[to0p]

VG EMU CLASSIC
make it like it used to be
no helmets..

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[stormlord]

Originally Posted by to0p [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VG EMU CLASSIC
make it like it used to be
no helmets..

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Does that include the bugs and performance issues (hitching, high system requirements)? And where will you find a population large enough to fill a world that even Brad himself says is too big? And how will you convince everyone else out there that anything is different? Nay, they will avoid VG in all its flavors like the plague.

It's hard to earn respect, but easy to lose it. Heard this before?

More non-answers.

To VGs credit, Brad admitted that most people quit VG in the first couple levels of play. There're only a few things that can cause someone to quit so promptly. Whatever the reason was, it was not because of a thorough review of the game. This hints that maybe there IS an answer. But, I don't think it's obvious.

It's like this game. I'm having fun, but it's tough. I die several times it seems every day or two. It's brutal. I am wise enough to know that this kind of game would never work in the mainstream market. It would fall deader than dinosaur bones. You have to realize a niche idea when you see it and you have to know how to target it. If you don't get it, then you're in for a world of pain. I don't know for sure if that's what VG did wrong, but it did something wrong. If it hadn't, I doubt it would have lost so many people in its first year. It failed spectacularly.

If it was performance, then why did people not leave everquest in 1999? I remember probably experiencing 5-10fps in the cities. It was better outside them, but even upgrading my computer didn't eliminate stutter-ness. I don't remember any serious bugs, though. I usually overlook graphics if I like a game.

Seeing how high penalty as a feature of the rpg genre is niche, it's interesting that I didn't judge this game based on how difficult it was when I played it in 1999. (I'm subtly saying that high penalty is similar to high difficulty, but lets just assume for the sake of simplicity that high penalty and high difficulty are interchangeable terms.) Back then I didn't have anything to compare it to (i hadn't played anything). But now that the market has established itself, a tough game is necessarily a niche not belonging to the mainstream. I don't think VG is on the same difficulty curve that project1999 is, but that's my own opinion. I can't imagine much in the mainstream market that's as tough as i've had it on project1999. If I hadn't experienced this in 1999 I might very well avoid it, but having experienced it I'm more accepting. It's hard for me to accept that people playing VG would quit within the first few levels just because they thought it was somehow too tough. Gauging difficulty is not easy and takes time. I'm open to this idea, but I don't think it's solid enough.

My bet is bugs and ... polish. Compared to WoW at that time VG must have been a real mess. I bet people tried VG and saw how it was a mess and then just went back to the previous games they were playing that were, at least compared to it, far more playable and enjoyable for them. Why have they not retried VG to find that it's so much better and playable? Well, my bet is some people just forgot about VG or they never get over their first impressions. Remember that first impressions can last a lifetime. And perhaps VG really hasn't got a lot better than it was initially. Also look at how SOE hasn't given it the funds it needs to really improve on itself. Perhaps the initial loss of players when people decided VG wasn't good enough was all it took to kill it later on because there wasn't enough money to recover. So all this time VG has been trying to survive on too little profit and first impressions are proving prophetic in this case even though it doesn't give VG any justice.

[MoonlightStoner]

I loved vanguard at first [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] wish they had released raid content faster tho was first 50 halfling warrior on my server if not the game can't remember the server name like doomfire or something I think too many games, too many servers haha my name was Deranged Lunatic tho.....are they expansions in? I wouldn't mind playing again if they had released some better content but it got boring at 50

[KilyenaMage]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

I really had a LOT of fun playing VG when it was released. Apparently I was one of the fortunate ones, because I **NEVER** had any of the crashes etc. that everyone complained about.

Granted I was running a then-$400 top-of-the-line Nvidia 8800 gtx.

It definately had the old world EQ feel to it - and yes the game world is massive.

[Scrooge]

Too bad the emulated version never made it to the surface.

[RKromwell]

Originally Posted by KilyenaMage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really had a LOT of fun playing VG when it was released. Apparently I was one of the fortunate ones, because I **NEVER** had any of the crashes etc. that everyone complained about.

Granted I was running a then-$400 top-of-the-line Nvidia 8800 gtx.

It definately had the old world EQ feel to it - and yes the game world is massive.

This, I never had crashing problems and my card was step or two down from yours.

I would play it again in a heartbeat if I could afford to play it. I just don't have the time or extra money any more. I will say this, I loved the paladins in that game...loved them.

[KilyenaMage]

Lol. I played on the PvP server with old friends from Tallon Zek. We had a Paladin named Bimli - toon was basically unkillable.

The classes in Vanguard were really well done - Paladins had what? Virtue Points was it!?

[Metasummon]

I beta tested this game and never made it to launch transition. I reported multiple bugs and exploits and even had a few pow-wows with the GMs about them, but none of them were ever fixed.

Heck one was so bad that you could stand on a bridge over the river/dam in one spot and cast on anything around and kill it without it ever pathing to you. Was still there when they shut down beta.

[Rahnza]

Vanguard was the best worst game ever.

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

Japan was pretty right-on though. How many Vanguard launch players were ex-EQers? I'm assuming a vast majority. Ex EQ players are hardcore MMOers by definition. Yet, Vanguard failed to deliver to the hardcore. It's not impossible to make another EQ-esque game (although no one has succeeded yet), but Vanguard got the closest (and was still miles from the mark). A lot of things were in place, but the most important thing (content/balance) was completely missing. It's like creating the greatest engineering school in the world, but not offering an engineering degree after you complete your schooling. The journey (leveling/grinding/questing) was fucking spot on and gorgeously designed, but after awhile you realized it was pointless. The game was one beautiful facade.

[Galv]

I played VG for a few months about two years ago. I really enjoyed the game play, the only problem was the low player base. I really liked how they implemented the classes, IMO the classes in that game were the best of any MMO I have played.

The blood mage, paladin, bard, and shadowknight were the classes I really read up on and/or played.

The way you could "write" a song that provided several effects was really cool. It was kind of unique not really twisting or the melody thing EQ ended up doing.

I played a paladin and the combat chains were really cool, plus the reatice combat system where you could intervene for a group mate was neat.

I thought the game was very polished from that aspect.