Item recharging is an exploit of game mechanics

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference being, I think, that I can't remember ever hearing of people hooping down mobs in actual classic, where as it was actually very common for things like res staffs to be used and recharged in this fashion.

Entirely too many hoops had entered the world here due to their rarity in the lynuga quest being off, and people throwing huge chunks of money at lynuga knowing that the lifetap was essentially unresistable, a problem which has also now been rectified.

I can agree with you here, I dont think the hoop was as rare as it should have been.

I also do not recall lynuga standing in one place forever. I recall her being a wanderer, which attacked good races forcing her to be killed more making it hard for people to do the quest. And she may have posibally had a place holder as I recall paying a tracker one day back in 2000 to find her and she wasnt in zone for over 4 hours.


I still beleive that there will be more problems caused by item recharges, and I think the solution would be to just remove the ability all together, instead of letting people get over for months until the problem is realized and changed by devs. Its not like people using these things to their advantage are going to tell the devs what they are capable of.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still beleive that there will be more problems caused by item recharges, and I think the solution would be to just remove the ability all together

This is clearly stated as an opinion. No changes are going to be made just because you think it's wrong. You still lack any kind of proof. Focus on the onus.

[Slave]

Really the Hoop should have been left the way it was for purity. Unresistable lifetaps is absolutely classic. What it amounts to is basically a punishment for creativity.

Oh no, mere 26-man guilds could have brought down Trakanon! Would that have been so bad? It seems that the 2 megaguilds got what they wanted...

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Ivandyr's Hoop fiasco caused the hoop to be nerfed because the frequency and magnitude by which it was being exploited, not the fact that it can be recharged.

When you're able to beat Trakanon simply because you have 26 people show up and spam hoops (210 damage a click x 6 clicks a hoop x 26 people > 32000 health), the game is clearly broken. You could then vender a single, fully charged hoop, and then buy the rest back to reload and do it again.

Hoops are still obtainable, but their drop rate is nerfed, and lifetaps were also changed so that they're no longer unstoppable. The recharge nerf might not have even been necessary, but definitely helps to keep those that would abuse it in line with the spirit of difficulty of the game.

Melee paying for a charge of locket of escape for one bind in plane of mischief (where other classes can already bind) is not game breaking.

See the difference?

As I originally stated, I am only trying to assist with your petition by empowering you. The onus is on you to show substantial reasoning as to why it should be removed. All you did was incorrectly state that it was never intended and expect it to be removed because you said so.

I liked that Ele tried. Some additional arguments were provided to show where item recharging might not be in the spirit of the game. But overall, this isn't going away.

You are right, its an opinion. I can man up to that fact. To call it incorrect is a bit of a stretch however. Just becuase I cannot provide you a quote from Brad or any of the other devs saying that it wasnt intended doesnt mean it was intended.

In situations like this, one can only use common sense to make an assumption ( opinion ). They started to make changes to recharing items as early as 2001, slowly changing the buyback prices of many charged items, patch after patch as they became aware of balance problems. This is a fact, the staff of forbidden rites buyback was changed well before the Crypt masters conjering stone was. Both were in patch notes.

They finally found a way to fix it, and implimented it. Breaking item recharging in 2003.
The fact that you cannot find any information on the internet ( including wayback searches ) from before 2001 about recharging items is a testament to how hush, hush everyone was about it.

And again, using common sense, if they intended item recharging, why would they require a player to own TWO of the items, make them have to sell it to an "empty" vendor in a certain order and then buy them back. This is cmplicated by the fact that lore items would cause even more issues. Why wouldnt they just put in a " recharge npc" instead.

Its all circumstantial, but all of it put together makes a very strong and compelling ( opinion ).

Its common sense and Logic. Item recharing just does not make sense.

If it sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug, it prolly is.

And bugs are not intended.

People using bugs in game mechanics are using exploits.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Brinkman
I still beleive that there will be more problems caused by item recharges, and I think the solution would be to just remove the ability all together

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is clearly stated as an opinion. No changes are going to be made just because you think it's wrong. You still lack any kind of proof. Focus on the onus.

I never said this statment was a fact of any kind. Me using I " think" should have lead you to that conclusion without you having to post about it lol.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No changes are going to be made just because you think it's wrong. You still lack any kind of proof.

You are right, all it takes is for my opinon to be agreed upon by other devs, making it their opinion, and then things could get changed.

Just like it was their "opinion" that Ivandyrs Hoop was too powerful.

End this war of words and opinions vs facts. End your troll, Ive already admitted that its an opinion now. So can you now open your eyes, look at the facts of the matter and realize item recharging, based on all information availible was " most likely, a bug that was not intended"

[Brinkman]

Edited my post to make it an opinion.

Now do you have anything to contribute to said opinion?

[Nirgon]

Fix item recharging, then make SK/necro taps work on raids correctly again :P.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fix item recharging, then make SK/necro taps work on raids correctly again :P.

Yeah they kinda dimnished a few classes abilities because of the hoop deal.

[Samoht]

From what I can tell, you've now realised I was correct but still refuse to concede it openly because you seem to either have some resentment towards me for being right or are too proud for being wrong yourself.

Either way, please reread this:

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am only trying to assist with your petition by empowering you. The onus is on you to show substantial reasoning as to why it should be removed.

The developers here do not care about opinions. They need facts. They need quotes, citations, proof. They're trying to maintain a classic server, and if things are un-classic, they will be hard pressed to adjust them.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off, one thing needs to be said: Recharging items using vendors is classic, there is no question about it. There should be no argument on this subject.

Your original post is very presumptuous. You're clearly arguing for a change that you're petitioning to be implemented, and you act like just because you brought it up, it's going to be changed. Regardless of what that content is, you do not give any actual reasons as to why it should be changed. There's no onus to your post. It quickly degrades into a rant.

If you really want this to be changed, step back and reassess what it is you want. Make an outline with some critical points, build an argument with proof and citations, and then present it in the proper forum section.

Don't rant and flame about it in server chat. That's not how things work here. P99 is going to require reasonable arguements. Here are some examples from this very thread:

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would Sony acquire itself?

Humerox cites his quotations on how Verant was not a part of Sony, therefore EverQuest was later bought by SoE. He doesn't just throw around wild accusations.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Examples: Clerics with instant invis rings v. single charge potions. Magicians with instant root nets v. earth pets. These classes do not innately have these abilities and it reduces reliance on other classes which was the very foundation of EQ.

I brought this up once before. Ele shows us other examples of how recharging could ruin the spirit of the game. His examples are quite small, however, and hardly game-breaking.

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh no, mere 26-man guilds could have brought down Trakanon! Would that have been so bad? It seems that the 2 megaguilds got what they wanted...

There was a lot more to using the hoops than just being a 26-man zerg guild. Hoops made the encounters trivial. How long do you think it would normally take to kill Trak with 26 people without hoops as opposed to about the time it takes you to click your hoop 6 times? What about strategy and group composition? Hoops really killed the immersion and difficulty of the game, whether or not they were 26 people armed with hoops or 126 people armed with hoops.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

26-man zerg guild

lol

But seriously, I hardly call getting 26 people together trivial. That is like 10% of the online population as it now stands.