Bob's Perfect World- A wall of text regarding the raid scene on P99

[Felwithemagi]

That would work better on PvP. If people insist on behaving like children just enforce a rotation.

[stormlord]

A world without GM's making sure people are playing fairly is interesting and doable, but very discouraging for most.

I played on Sullon Zek during live. High levels routinely were killing low levels, but not always. Anyway, there was no GM intervention at all. People did train each other. Sullon Zek probably had the lowest population of all servers. In fact, I'm certain it did. That was because of frequent griefing, a bad economy that lagged behind every other server, and there were no GM's. Nonetheless, I liked the atmosphere. But it's not practical for most users.

Maybe you're right, but I think you underestimate how many people would use this to grief others. I don't think you can compare a work environment to EQ, either. Players won't hold themselves to the same standard.

Remember, it only takes a few sociopaths or pscyhopaths to ruin the fun. That's why RL is not fun because most of us know the truth: sociopaths and psychopaths have hacked this world. But games were made for fun. By not having any rules and allowing players to do as they please, you set the monsters loose and the game will no longer be fun for most. When a game isn't fun, it's no longer a game. This is why pvp without rules is not liked by most players.

I was able to enjoy Sullon Zek because it didn't bother me that sociopaths mostly ruled the game. I didn't care how long it took me to level up or how expensive things were. At the time, it felt like an experiment. It felt like I might learn something about RL by playing. I also played because it was different. I felt like my choices were more meaningful too - i tried to be a good guy and not profit on other's losses. It's hard to explain, but it's the truth. It wasn't always fun.

Just picture yourself in a group and they're talking about running through a zone and slaying the noobs. They were all laughing. I was sick to my stomach. It felt wrong. I stopped after that. I stayed away from pvp the vast majority of the time. Used what I knew to escape rather than fight. On that server you quickly learned whether you could stomach pvp or not. Pvp on SZ was real... it was not staged or planned. Players could grief you without punishment.

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by Hobby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bob...my perfect would is: You, Me, 500mil plat, a private isle, and a private airline to ship out goods people buy over the forums.


I miss thee!


Inventory: xxxxxxxxx Plat, 192 Gold, 54 Silver, 0 Copper
[Mon Mar 28 01:46:39 2011] You say, '#summon irbob'
[Mon Mar 28 01:46:40 2011] Summoning irbob to ecommons 741.7, -1356.0, 2.5
[Mon Mar 28 01:47:19 2011] Meccus says, 'GM ?''
[Mon Mar 28 01:47:34 2011] You say, 'NO....'
[Mon Mar 28 01:47:37 2011] You say, '#name Bob'
[Mon Mar 28 01:47:38 2011] Successfully renamed Irbob to Bob
[Mon Mar 28 01:47:38 2011] Sending player to char select.
[1 Monk] Bob (Iksar) <The Syndicate> ZONE: ecommons


Thus created Bob the Iksar, summoned to ec, and renamed.


<3 forever documented!

<3 Sir !

I hope you got that shank I sent to you at Shawshank Prison in that phallus shaped cake. Gotta protect my dorf!

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A world without GM's making sure people are playing fairly is interesting and doable, but extremely discouraging for the general user.

I played on Sullon Zek during live. High levels routinely were killing low levels, but not always. Anyway, there was no GM intervention at all. People did train each other. Sullon Zek probably had the lowest population of all servers. In fact, I'm certain it did. That was because of frequent griefing, a bad economy that lagged behind every other server, and there were no GM's. Nonetheless, I liked the atmosphere. But it's not practical for most users.

Maybe you're right, but I think you underestimate how many people would use this to grief others. I don't think you can compare a work environment to EQ, either. Players don't hold themselves to the same standard.

I agree with you and previous posters saying that an absolute lack of GM intervention on the server would lead to Anarchy. However my OP was targeted at raid encounters only. Fear,Hate,Sky all would be "Get Along, or Get the Fuck Out" more or less. World spawn dragons would be handled in a similar way.

I agree that the internet brings out the worst in people as a whole. The total lack of RL consequences makes even the biggest coward 6'5" and 250lbs. You call me a dickhole to my face and I'll feed you your teeth. You do it over the internet and well...not much I can do.

However, when people are not getting their daily dose of raid loot pixels due to another guild training them and vice vs I really do feel that whether they like it or not they will have to learn to work together and play nice. Otherwise no one get shits. And while all this raid drama goes on...98% of the server keeps on rolling having fun and getting even better customer service than before from the GMs because they aren't pulling out their hair listening to one whiny bitch after another in PoH.

The less rules in place the less ways shifty players can abuse them and or abuse loopholes regarding those rules. Keep it simple stupid.

[Lazortag]

In my new perfect world there are no GM interventions. You don't like Guild Z training your shit? Train them back. For awhile its going to be a cluster fuck of trains. RnF will actually be worth reading again.

However, in the long run while this shitstorm is going on the intelligent players are going to realize, "shit man....we haven't killed anything worthwhile in weeks....all we do is train each other"

I have a problem with the assumption that every guild would train in retaliation. I'm pretty sure divinity wouldn't resort to that, nor would a lot of other guilds, which means that this kind of system would just allow the guilds with the bigger douchebags to take advantage of the guilds with nice people in them. And that sucks.

I also take issue with the assumption that people would just commonly realize how stupid and futile it is to continue on such a shitstorm, because it assumes that players are all rational actors who would do what's in their best interest. This is just empirically false though, since players are willing to poopsock, which is not rational and is in no one's interest.

[Zereh]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The less rules in place the less ways shifty players can abuse them and or abuse loopholes regarding those rules. Keep it simple stupid.

[Motec]

I dont think people want to experience a world where there is no rules.

You have no seen what people who can play 50 hours straight repeatedly are capable of when they want to ruin your day.

Pull your heads in. Rules are good.

What's missing is respect, and guides/gm's who understand classic raiding.

[Beauregard]

/guildwar please.

[Taminy]

1. Get rid of the variance

2. Make it FTE

3. Players will realize that socking (even if offline) or stay up until/waking up at 5:00am just to get a 1/6 shot at even getting the kill is stupid

4. In light of #3, guilds will make a rotation

5. ???

6. PROFIT

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Players will realize that socking (even if offline) or stay up until/waking up at 5:00am just to get a 1/6 shot at even getting the kill is stupid

This happens now, since both guilds doing this are relentless about making sure the other guild does not get "their" target. I don't see either backing down. They will just rely on more frequent tracker rotations to get the job done. They've perfected the art of poopsocking.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This happens now, since both guilds doing this are relentless about making sure the other guild does not get "their" target. I don't see either backing down. They will just rely on more frequent tracker rotations to get the job done. They've perfected the art of poopsocking.

Poopsocking for 1/2 shot >>>> poopsocking for 1/6 shot