Miscellaneous: Lost armor on dye failure?

[Daywolf]

So the wiki reads on the blacksmithing page:

Take a completed piece of fine steel plate armor, place it in the forge along with 1 dye, 1 Jar of Acid, 1 Jar of Lacquer and hit combine. Once dyed, the color cannot be removed. You CAN fail on this part of the process (it's a skill check versus your smithing skill), read your combine message carefully. On a failure, the armor will be returned to you, undyed, and you lose the dye, lacquer and acid.


But what actually happened, it returned nothing. Fine plate breastplate, nothing on the mouse pointer, even relogged and checked all my bags again. Nothing on ground. Nothing inside the forge. Just gone.

Is this a bug? Or did it change on failure to destroying the armor?

[Daywolf]

Should I petition on this for an item refund? Or is this intended?
This happened on my SK (remaining nameless here) in Neriak FQ at the regular forge in the Ogre area there just to the left when you enter their district. I made the armor with Daywolf, and transferred the set to my SK which has minimal blacksmithing skill; wasn't worried about burning through a few dyes. First dyed the arms with no issue, first try. Then proceeded to dye the chestplate which resulted in the loss of the armor on the first try. Stopped at that point. I haven't replaced the armor yet, waiting on some info about this. Suppose to not destroy the armor, right?

And I just checked bags again, since I remember that bug long ago with things vanishing and reappearing (though not sure if that was here or earlier on PEQ) but no armor to be found.

[nilbog]

edit:

Which color were you trying to dye the chestplate?

[Daldaen]

The way I read his evidence, it wasn't no fail. You would just receive the Fine Plate Armor piece back, like when you fail a combine with a Smithy Hammer, you get the Smithy Hammer back on failure.

However I'd like to see the source and more importantly date of that information. I don't doubt it, but it would help its credibility if it's a wayback quote from 2001 eqtraders.

[Daywolf]

From Feb. 3, 2002:
https://web.archive.org/web/20020203...cipes_dyes.htm

The current page is missing but got it on the waybackmachine archive. It says the same thing, that on failure, the armor is returned, while the other components are destroyed.

Also notable on that page, trivial is 150 for the dying process, which our wiki doesn't mention. And that trivial was added or at least noted on that 2002 page while the original page from early 2001 it was not noted. Of course likely it was 150 in 2001, but just later updated with later revealed trivial numbers. Edit: Oh "last updated 23 September 2001" so yeah was trivial <150 during 2001. Then it looks like it was lowered to trivial <=62 in late 2002 or early 2003

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

edit:

Which color were you trying to dye the chestplate?

ah almost missed your edit. I must have loaded the page between Dal's post and your edit in that split moment. Umm base green using the 2 resins. hehe to match the hero bracers. If you are going to toss it my way, float it to Sanitarium, my SK, still logged at the forge in Neriak FQ.

[nilbog]

Okay I found the issue.

Currently the trivials are set to 36 for dying of fine plate and fails are not returned.

Could use some more evidence or opinions to change the trivials to 150 and return on fails.

[Daywolf]

I figured it was pretty low trivial, I dyed it at 0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] gave me a +1 haha I was considering it an experiment at the time.
Um, well 150 or 62, depending on the date it was originally set which I'm not sure at this point (I'm less concerned about trivials). It was lowered sometime in 2002 according to EQtraders which always seemed like a credible source in the day. I could dig through patch note archives of the mechanic, that's always fun... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For return on fails, seems to be the mechanic. I never took it past banded on live and my cleric had quested armor mostly.

[Daywolf]

No mention of any changes in patch archives until early 2003 regarding armor dye and the entry was irrelevant to this subject. No pages found yet with any relevant information regarding the subject. What information was to be had, from EQtraders, was removed it seems, after the armor dye revamp I'm guessing, while the existing wiki here is a copy of what EQtraders posted at the earlier date in 2001. From there the page was updated twice as mentioned, and then later removed altogether.

The only changes in that page were


* last updated 23 September 2001
(it's a skill check versus your smithing skill - trivial <150)

* last updated 29 November 2002
(it's a skill check versus your smithing skill - trivial <=62)

Searches were done using google, also utilizing quotations for exact phrases. Disclaimer: No kittens were harmed in the execution of these searches.

[Daywolf]

Ok did some more searching as I was looking for Feir'Dal weapon recipes that the p99 wiki mentions but doesn't list (assuming it's implemented, haven't tried as of yet, don't see them anywhere on this wiki, though I see them on zam with comments back to summer of 2001).
Came across this:
http://www.less3d.com/smithing.htm
In this instance, lists trivial at <150 (likely from ~early 2001) but more importantly also says return of armor on dye failure.
But it reads: "You CAN fail on this part of the process - (trivial <150)...
...On a failure, the armor will be returned to you, undyed, and you lose the Dye, Jar of Acid and Lacquer.

Anyway, even using custom year range on google, it turns up little on the subject. Wherever these sites got this info I can only guess at this point, regarding the source.