OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Buriedpast]

Ella,

This is Motec.

I dont support your post in absolutely any form what so ever, and I have zero room to compromise on it. It is beyond missing the point and does absolutely NOTHING to address rogean's concerns about the raid scene and CSR incolvement.

Please read rogeans requests for a shared raid scene, with no CSR involvement and go back to the drawing board.

Sorry mate but all bets are off here, we should be friends but not one fuckin person seems to be taking Rogeans words seriously, and I wont take a clown like you fucking my leisure time with such a shit agreement. The 36 second DA stall bullshit takes the cake.

STALLING MOBS IS FUCKING RETARDED.

Do you have any comprehension of what Rogean wants? As it isnt one guild able to take ALL mobs on the server, and then a token scrap throw every month to the poor people.

Motec <Inglourious Basterds - but probably not for long>

[jaybone]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I would find it extremeley sad if a guild made an alt guild so they could cheese their way into a rotation.

[Magicant]

I think we just make it so no guild/raid group can have more than say.. 25 people engage a mob.

The raid scene would work itself out.

Because the guilds are coded to specific number the devs can easily have the mob shout if/when 26+ players from same the guild engage a mob.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is everyone failing to understand that every guild in category B can engage any mob at any time...? Just because TMO, FE, IB are going for priority targets doesn't mean that any other guild can as well. The only ones suffering any restrictions currently are TMO/FE/IB. And, really --- the promotion to Category A aspect really keeps BDA (since they're the heir apparent) from shitting all over the little guilds since they have the infrastructure to be the big bad wolf amongst those in Cat B.

Same thing is accomplished with a point system, and better. you still get your "competition" and the little guys still have a chance, whether you consider us a Rank A, B, or those you don't even consider worthy to have a rank to even be represented.

Seen enough. im against this in favor of a points system.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that worked, we wouldn't be sitting here trying to hash out an agreement and reach consensus on it prior to Jan 2nd now, would we?

Yendor, you don't even try. Just because you don't, doesn;t me it's because you can't or because we're disabling you.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

You guys need to stop trying to split the raid scene in any % for the different "types" of guilds and come up with a system that applies to everyone equally.

If I was to camp orc 1 (and 2) on a lvl 60 toon for 4 years, what would the reaction be? Maybe lock down all the camps in west commons also, and keep all the crocs clear in Oasis. What would the social backlash be? Think a GM would step in? Why is player behavior looked at differently when we are 60? It shouldn't be.

Tier the raiding scene. If you're in VP you don't get Nagafen and Vox, as a loose example. I have yet to see anything proposed or put forth that isn't transparent as far as the motivation and greed.

I said it 3 years ago, give me reign over this and I'll resolve it one way or the other, and end this posturing and positioning to be the one(s) that gets everything. Are we going to make more rules to lawyer, or are we going to remember the INTENT behind the change. I see people coming up with a system for the sake of having the system in place so they can ensure they get the loots from raid mobs, and missing this incredible opportunity to change the server as a whole for the better. Without making it a welfare state, or the adolescents running amok with immaturity and greed with the cry of "it's classic".

If they became a significant raid presence, they would gain representation.

The reason other guilds never became a 'significant raid presence' is because of the behavior and monopolization of certain groups of people for years, combined with the unwillingness to behave like the 'raid presence' guilds and be a further detriment to the server. So they are penalized for not making the server a worse place? Some of us were at the very top on live, and have no desire to play in the mud with miscreants.

I say this because it comes down to this for a vast majority of us.

We don't trust you. And by you, I don't necessarily the OP, but there is a distinct difference between wanting a deal done so you can continue to get loots, or get a deal done because the server would be better for it. This is what I mean by transparency. I have seen and heard from only one person whose intent I trust on this, and I propose this. Have someone NOT involved, an arbitrator, a facilitator, and come up with an agreement. I do not like the idea of 'letting the fox guard the hen house', or letting 10 pct of the server speak for the other 90pct as well. I have nothing wrong with a motivated group of members getting the majority of kills because they are that motivated. But it is the way people go about it and go past a little extra for themselves to flat out greed, or something deliberately malicious and hurtful towards their fellow players.

"A bone shared with the dog is not charity. Charity is sharing the bone with the dog, when you are just as hungry as the dog."

Remove the variance and enforce play nice. You want to act like a miscreant, the toons ion your guild are stripped.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I think it's becoming clear that this proposal, no matter how much some may find it agreeable, is failing.

I think the failure is due to complexity, and I think a self-policing and simpler system stands a greater chance of acceptance.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Bossman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this is where you are wrong. Us casual scum will be fine indefinitely, we have been surviving for a long time with 1 mob a week, what is none to us?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I've thought of this. Any guild that splinters and wants to raid should be (A) monitored to make sure it isn't just an alt guild to get more mob attempts and (B) should exist for a predetermined amount of time determined by the server. I'm thinking 3-6 months a guild should be established before they are allowed to claim points in my system.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is it completely unthinkable that a category B guild can compete on the other 3 weeks of the month with tmo and FE/IB? They can compete right now if they want. We haven't gotten an Inny in weeks.

I asked Taken what toll it was taking on their guild in order to go after Inny in this raid environment. Other "casual" guilds can read and envision their own guilds in this situation and help answer the question above...

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you try to engage Innoruuk on equal footing with the top dogs, (aka port up at the same time or even before them), they simply train up to Inny, then train Inny and everything else back down to the ZI to kill him there. (complete and utter BS tactic btw and should not be allowed)

It doesn't matter that they may wipe in the process, because the resulting train will wipe all other competition too. While said competition is trying to recover corpses, they continue to pull Inny with everything in his path down to ZI. Once again if they wipe it doesn't matter, because it wipes those now trying to recover their corpses. The train is the insurance policy so that if they screw up on the engage, nobody else can kill him either.

Spent close to 4 hours one Saturday morning just trying to recover our corpses at the ZI because said top dogs could not risk anyone else getting a shot and kept training Innoruuk to the ZI. The multiple wipes made it pretty obvious that they couldn't kill Inny this way with their current force, but they kept at it until we gave up on even our own corpse recovery. We can't win Game of Trains. We were not even a threat anymore. We just wanted to loot our bodies and leave. But they would not stop

That led to the current environment of how we get Inny. There is no way that we can compete otherwise. I personally do a lot of the tracking up there and a server environment that has made these kind of measures necessary is BS. Im glad things are hopefully changing.