Ragefire Agreement/Rotation

[Xeliso]

OCCUPY ZORDAK RAGEFIRE

[quido]

Whatever the situation, people will find a way to exert incredible overall effort to levy the odds in their favor. A lot of people in your situation, skope, before the variance and both with and without the (forced) rotation endorsed the variance as a quality solution. I don't think most people envisioned the lengths to which players on p99 were willing to go. No ruleset is going to cure the "problem" of crazy no-life ninjas (such as myself, apparently) being hardcore as fuck.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever the situation, people will find a way to exert incredible overall effort to levy the odds in their favor. A lot of people in your situation, skope, before the variance and both with and without the (forced) rotation endorsed the variance as a quality solution. I don't think most people envisioned the lengths to which players on p99 were willing to go. No ruleset is going to cure the "problem" of crazy no-life ninjas (such as myself, apparently) being hardcore as fuck.

You know, the same was said for the guilds that were poopsocking would still be the best guilds when FTE hit; but what happened? Soon as that window opened we took it in our hands and went with it with 2 server sweeps in 2 consecutive weeks. The same attitude was had by people when actual poopsock was the server norm and obviously things changed for the better (though Rogean took a nice dump down our throats during that time). A defeatist attitude isn't how you fix the problem and stagnation by default as a suggestion isn't a suggestion. Fix the big problem and you'll fix your little one, otherwise you'll be here playing with yourselves and still against yourselves.

[Jomar]

Originally Posted by relapsee69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My suggestion is Ib and VD raid naggy together. So we should share that ragefire. While tmo does naggy on their own they have their own ragefire. Which would leave that 3rd spot now for divinity/bda/taken. Each raid force would have from naggy to naggy to kill however many ragefires spawned that week.

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four..

Nothing out of line in that post

[Zereh]

~Doesn't~ kill and ~can't~ kill are worlds apart.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(they have two kills over the last three months)

Epics haven't been out but for so long.


If Killing nagafen lays claim to the triggered ragefire mob and we go by the rule-set, TMO will definitely put Nagafen back on a top priority list.

There were reasons why we didn't push for him, there are reasons we would. I imagine IB feels the same way.

[maverixdamighty]

I don't think killing naggy prior to epics means anything since it was just for loot. Waiting 8 cycles before a chance to potentially get into the rotation is a bit long. As long as each guild gets one fairly soon I think it would be a win for all involved.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

The issue with this suggestion is that if variance were back at normal live levels (or any of the other suggestions in that other thread) the above wouldn't apply. You would likely get more TMO/Taken/BDA/Div competition for naggy and the rest and those left out of Ele's post would account for a far larger proportion of nag kills. This only addresses the issue of Ragefire and not the windows themselves and thus doesn't address the problem but rather a really small one within a specific situation. Outside of TMO/IB, I'm sure VD feels the same way I just described. It's not about Ragefire, it's about the windows to get to Ragefire that are the issue. Appealing to those not willing to poopsock but not dealing with the poopsock does nothing about poopsock.

[Jomar]

Originally Posted by Zereh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

~Doesn't~ kill and ~can't~ kill are worlds apart.

Taken doesn't kill Nagafen because they won't poopsock him, but I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of doing it if they were given an unrushed chance at it.

Meanwhile, back in November, your guild wiped to Nagafen three times in a row while repeatedly training us to slow us down, until finally during your fourth CR, we (VD solo) got our one shot at him and killed him no problem.

So maybe doesn't and can't aren't worlds apart after all.