Ragefire Agreement/Rotation - Page 43

Wotsirb401 · #**421** 02-22-2012, 05:36 PM

I love szeth's response lol . Someone has been watching a lot of Always Sunny in Philly. talking about tacking on mass

Szeth · #**422** 02-22-2012, 05:39 PM

Derail: Success.

Tricky Beverage · #**423** 02-22-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

greedy fucks will always be greedy fucks. PS

The case was made by Relapsee about guilds sharing their ragefire rotation. I said if that is the case

IB and VD had to share their rotation on ragefire. They raid together after all.

IB would not go for that, they won't even let you into VP with them for rots.

That is why I put all guilds on there and allowed them to get assistance if they could do it in the time frame.

Otherwise the rotation would be something like

TMO > Taken/div/bda > IB/VD (not in that order, but with the guilds that raid together rotating together)

btw, taken/div/bda can still fall out individually from the rotation. This means they have to reapply tho, and if they are all grouped together? What are the odds that VD/IB would let them all back on?

IMO, mine and relapsee's way was about as fair as it was going to get. Y'all *****s can hate all you want tho, 0ducks

I am going to do my best to respond to both Serin and Stealin. Stealin, while I fully understand that you are just trolling me (or us), I still think you bring up a valid point in your post. You say that in order for it to be fair for any two or more guilds to have to share a Ragefire rotation slot, IB and VD should have to share a slot (since we raid some things cooperatively). Stealin, you would argue that it's fair for Divinity and Taken to raid together, even though they both hold slots in the Ragefire rotation because IB and VD can both hold Ragefire rotation spots and IB and VD are allowed to raid Ragefire together if they want (even though IB and VD will probably never raid Ragefire together).

The problem with your reasoning is that IB can kill Ragefire in under 30 minutes of his spawn without VD, and VD can kill Ragefire within 30 minutes of his spawn without IB. (Obviously, TMO can also kill Ragefire within 30 minutes of his spawn, but I don't think you're suggesting that TMO should have to share a raid slot with anyone, since they don't raid cooperatively with any other guilds.)

The same has not been proven for the other three guilds. Now if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA /or/ b. Divinity /or/ c. Taken) kill Ragefire, given all the time they want?"
Then I think it's safe to say "Yes," that each obviously could.

Likewise, if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA AND b. Divinity AND c. Taken) kill Ragefire, together?"
Then I think again, it's obvious that the answer is "Yes."

HOWEVER, if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA /or/ b. Divinity /or/ c. Taken) get enough players online and mobilized to kill Ragefire in the 30 minute time frame considered standard by the top three guilds, without the help of another guild in the Ragefire rotation?"
Then the answer is not so clearly a "yes."

This seems like a reasonable thing to ask of a guild that wants to partake in the Ragefire rotation and is the standard I believe they should be held to when killing Ragefire. Now, BDA/Divinity/Taken, before any of you start to think that I'm disrespecting you, let me just say that you may ALL meet the above standard. I'm not saying any one of you can't mobilize and kill your Ragefire within 30 minutes without help. The simple fact is, I just don't know. But if you CAN, then whichever of you can do this (regularly, not just once to secure a rotation slot and then all as one guild in multiple rotation slots) SHOULD be given a spot in the Ragefire rotation. For all I know all three of you can do it, and if so, I believe you should each receive your own slot. But I do think it's reasonable to expect the above standard when engaging Ragefire -- engage promptly and with only one guild.

Now I will illustrate why the above (bolded) requirement is the only fair and acceptable standard by using two illustrations of the problems caused by allowing guilds on the rotation to help other guilds on the rotation.

For example, assume Divinity and Taken are allowed to raid Ragefire together (and take up two rotation slots), BDA raids on their own, and IB, TMO, and VD each raid on their own. We all rock along on a 6-slot rotation for two or three weeks, but then another guild conglomerate wants to try for a Ragefire slot. Let's assume it's Acyrid, The Warlords, Wudan, Trigarium, and Freedom Guard (yeah, I know some of these may or may not be plausible, I just chose five guilds at random) all wanting to do Ragefire together as one unit. And then if they are successful, they would like to have FIVE rotation slots, even though they are going to raid in each of the five slots as one unit. Suddenly, for Divinity, Taken, and BDA, Ragefire rotation guilds being able to help each other and still get a slot apiece doesn't look so fair does it?

Worse yet, let's change the scenario -- we'll say that TMO or IB (or even VD) has the players on at any given time to successfully kill Ragefire (which they always do). Let's use TMO as an example, not because there has been any indication they are planning such shenanigans, but just to make the example simple. So TMO decides to split into two guilds, The Mystical Order and The Medulla Oblongata. TMO & TMO then demand two Ragefire spots, and then both TMOs raid both Ragefires together. This would quite obviously be unfair. And while I realize it was probably just in jest, this sort of thing has actually been suggested before:

Quote:

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can I drop my guild, enlist in The Medulla Oblongata, raid with TMO, and train VB with no raid suspension for TMO?

VD should share IB's raid suspension.

I (of course) don't agree with Jeremy's reasoning here, but I understand the point he was making with his hypothetical. And the hypothetical is roughly the same as my scenario above.

I apologize and will make this my last wall of text post on this issue. While I sometimes almost enjoy Stealin's trolling, I also know that replying with long, thought-out posts like this just makes me an easy target for more trolling (i.e. "TL;DR u care fag" or "u mad bro" etc). I understand why it's fun to troll me. Sadly, I just can't spend all my time paying the troll toll.

So that's the extremely long version of why Ragefire rotation guilds should not be allowed help from other Ragefire rotation guilds. It's not anything personal toward any one guild. In fact, I hope every guild that wants a slot in the Ragefire rotation is able to have one. I just think each guild should have to dispatch its own Ragefires. Good luck, friends!

Autotune · #**424** 02-22-2012, 06:01 PM

^ i stopped reading when you spouted the "just trolling" bs again. Seems that is VD's validation on everything lately.

Lazortag · #**425** 02-22-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Beverage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

HOWEVER, if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA /or/ b. Divinity /or/ c. Taken) get enough players online and mobilized to kill Ragefire in the 30 minute time frame considered standard by the top three guilds, without the help of another guild in the Ragefire rotation?"
Then the answer is not so clearly a "yes."

Actually the answer is clearly yes. We've killed Faydedar who is also a naggy clone without the help of another guild, several times, within 30 minutes of him spawning. We've killed Naggy (before he started banishing) without the help of another guild, also several times, also within 30 minutes of him spawning. Ragefire is a Naggy clone.

Tricky Beverage · #**426** 02-22-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually the answer is clearly yes. We've killed Faydedar who is also a naggy clone without the help of another guild, several times, within 30 minutes of him spawning. We've killed Naggy (before he started banishing) without the help of another guild, also several times, also within 30 minutes of him spawning. Ragefire is a Naggy clone.

Then I fully support your efforts. I didn't mean to be negative or discouraging, I was just putting forth a standard and truly didn't know.

rigi · #**427** 02-23-2012, 12:52 AM

nerdfire agreement

Flunklesnarkin · #**428** 02-23-2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Beverage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am going to do my best to respond to both Serin and Stealin. Stealin, while I fully understand that you are just trolling me (or us), I still think you bring up a valid point in your post. You say that in order for it to be fair for any two or more guilds to have to share a Ragefire rotation slot, IB and VD should have to share a slot (since we raid some things cooperatively). Stealin, you would argue that it's fair for Divinity and Taken to raid together, even though they both hold slots in the Ragefire rotation because IB and VD can both hold Ragefire rotation spots and IB and VD are allowed to raid Ragefire together if they want (even though IB and VD will probably never raid Ragefire together).

The problem with your reasoning is that IB can kill Ragefire in under 30 minutes of his spawn without VD, and VD can kill Ragefire within 30 minutes of his spawn without IB. (Obviously, TMO can also kill Ragefire within 30 minutes of his spawn, but I don't think you're suggesting that TMO should have to share a raid slot with anyone, since they don't raid cooperatively with any other guilds.)

The same has not been proven for the other three guilds. Now if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA /or/ b. Divinity /or/ c. Taken) kill Ragefire, given all the time they want?"
Then I think it's safe to say "Yes," that each obviously could.

Likewise, if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA AND b. Divinity AND c. Taken) kill Ragefire, together?"
Then I think again, it's obvious that the answer is "Yes."

HOWEVER, if the question is:
"Can _______________ (a. BDA /or/ b. Divinity /or/ c. Taken) get enough players online and mobilized to kill Ragefire in the 30 minute time frame considered standard by the top three guilds, without the help of another guild in the Ragefire rotation?"
Then the answer is not so clearly a "yes."

This seems like a reasonable thing to ask of a guild that wants to partake in the Ragefire rotation and is the standard I believe they should be held to when killing Ragefire. Now, BDA/Divinity/Taken, before any of you start to think that I'm disrespecting you, let me just say that you may ALL meet the above standard. I'm not saying any one of you can't mobilize and kill your Ragefire within 30 minutes without help. The simple fact is, I just don't know. But if you CAN, then whichever of you can do this (regularly, not just once to secure a rotation slot and then all as one guild in multiple rotation slots) SHOULD be given a spot in the Ragefire rotation. For all I know all three of you can do it, and if so, I believe you should each receive your own slot. But I do think it's reasonable to expect the above standard when engaging Ragefire -- engage promptly and with only one guild.

Now I will illustrate why the above (bolded) requirement is the only fair and acceptable standard by using two illustrations of the problems caused by allowing guilds on the rotation to help other guilds on the rotation.

For example, assume Divinity and Taken are allowed to raid Ragefire together (and take up two rotation slots), BDA raids on their own, and IB, TMO, and VD each raid on their own. We all rock along on a 6-slot rotation for two or three weeks, but then another guild conglomerate wants to try for a Ragefire slot. Let's assume it's Acyrid, The Warlords, Wudan, Trigarium, and Freedom Guard (yeah, I know some of these may or may not be plausible, I just chose five guilds at random) all wanting to do Ragefire together as one unit. And then if they are successful, they would like to have FIVE rotation slots, even though they are going to raid in each of the five slots as one unit. Suddenly, for Divinity, Taken, and BDA, Ragefire rotation guilds being able to help each other and still get a slot apiece doesn't look so fair does it?

Worse yet, let's change the scenario -- we'll say that TMO or IB (or even VD) has the players on at any given time to successfully kill Ragefire (which they always do). Let's use TMO as an example, not because there has been any indication they are planning such shenanigans, but just to make the example simple. So TMO decides to split into two guilds, The Mystical Order and The Medulla Oblongata. TMO & TMO then demand two Ragefire spots, and then both TMOs raid both Ragefires together. This would quite obviously be unfair. And while I realize it was probably just in jest, this sort of thing has actually been suggested before:

I (of course) don't agree with Jeremy's reasoning here, but I understand the point he was making with his hypothetical. And the hypothetical is roughly the same as my scenario above.

I apologize and will make this my last wall of text post on this issue. While I sometimes almost enjoy Stealin's trolling, I also know that replying with long, thought-out posts like this just makes me an easy target for more trolling (i.e. "TL;DR u care fag" or "u mad bro" etc). I understand why it's fun to troll me. Sadly, I just can't spend all my time paying the troll toll.

So that's the extremely long version of why Ragefire rotation guilds should not be allowed help from other Ragefire rotation guilds. It's not anything personal toward any one guild. In fact, I hope every guild that wants a slot in the Ragefire rotation is able to have one. I just think each guild should have to dispatch its own Ragefires. Good luck, friends!

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