Game Mechanics: Monk kick accuracy

[Icecometus]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's not forget about dot stacking.

Client issue. This will(has) make(made) many encounters a lot easier.

I think the issue here is that due to client limitations Monks have gotten a boost. That is fine, really. Just don't pretend that it is how it should be, no ability should land 100% of the time in classic. Kunark is around the corner and I believe that is where the change was made to flying kick to give it a min damage, could be the same with BS (Barf?), so there is little point in changing it now. Yes I am jealous of monks but I could have chosen to play one instead of suffer the riggers of being a rogue in classic.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

monks consistently topping out DPS

lol

[Timzilla]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Accuracy on live indicates approximately 60-70% without +accuracy item increase.

Furthermore, the original description of the thunderkick discipline went something like this:

http://www.eqvintage.com/links/melee-disciplines-2/



This indicates that the next time a flying kick connects, it would increase the damage of the kick. If the kick doesn't connect, it wouldn't (or it would use the disc and you wouldn't get the damage bonus till the next reuse timer). This implies accuracy is not supposed to be 100%. Again, considering Verant's original mantra of "nothing is certain," why would they leave a disc up to uncertainty if the melee attack used was certain?

The way SOE implemented AAs was to sometimes nerf existing skills and then make you buy back their previous power by spending AA points. Could be a case of nerfing accuracy and then selling increased damage and other AAs to let the poor monk buy back his mojo.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Barfight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was a rogue on live from Classic to Velious. All I recall during classic (until epics) was rogues complaining nonstop about how monk damage was their equivalent or better to theirs. This seems to be a direct parallel to that situation.

Monk's were absolutely top end DPS in Velious, perhaps Kunark if the rogues in comparison did not have a few specific weapons (i.e Vulark Dagger, Ragebringer, Massive Heartwood Thorn, FSSS). This is almost exclusively due to monk's superior weapon choices and an entire revamp of their melee output in Kunark!

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Timzilla [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way SOE implemented AAs was to sometimes nerf existing skills and then make you buy back their previous power by spending AA points. Could be a case of nerfing accuracy and then selling increased damage and other AAs to let the poor monk buy back his mojo.

Cmon Tim, this argument basically identifies that the unknown ought first be considered counter intuitively. Completely inaccurate.

[Aadill]

I was talking about discipliness, not AAs... so that point is moot to begin with. Discs came in Kunark and were further built up in Velious. AAs came in Luclin when those other skills already existed. The melee revamp did indeed cause AA to be more of a "buyback" than anything, so yes... poor monks.

That's not classic, let alone in the scope of this server, though.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol

Did I miss a joke somewhere?

[Rais]

Adill wrote:

Accuracy on live indicates approximately 60-70% without +accuracy item increase.

Furthermore, the original description of the thunderkick discipline went something like this:

http://www.eqvintage.com/links/melee-disciplines-2/

Quote:
THUNDER KICK (Level 52): When this discipline is activated, the next successful flying kick will do additional damage. The base reuse time for this discipline is 9 minutes, and will decrease as the monk gains additional levels.
This indicates that the next time a flying kick connects, it would increase the damage of the kick. If the kick doesn't connect, it wouldn't (or it would use the disc and you wouldn't get the damage bonus till the next reuse timer). This implies accuracy is not supposed to be 100%. Again, considering Verant's original mantra of "nothing is certain," why would they leave a disc up to uncertainty if the melee attack used was certain?]

Because flying kick does indeed miss. Not a flat out miss, but 3 other types of misses.

Flying kick has a 25% chance to hit,50% to hit if the monk is meleeing behind the NPC. ( I'm making the %'s in a way to make it easier to understand. Parry, Ripotose , and dodge. Dodge only takes effect if you are in in the face of the NPC)

Once again, making parses now in fear or whatever on P99 does not equate to 1999-Kunark.

Monks STILL MISS flying kick. Stop blurring the lines saying it ALWAYS land.

[Aadill]

You do realize that an attack hit/miss check is made before dodge/riposte/parry/block, right?

Look at the actual combat text, listen to the game sounds. Think about melee in RPGs. Hell, even look up the definition of the words being used. You HIT the mob, but it doesn't connect due to extra abilities. Those chances to avoid taking damage only occur when the kick would otherwise land and do damage. Ripostes, Blocks, Parries, and Dodges are NOT misses in respect to the player. The point of this post is to point out the fact that a kick will always land EXCEPT in the event that a mob passes an evade check, which has only a very slim chance of happening. MISSING implies that you flat out picked your foot up, lunged at a mob, and knocked over a lamp instead of kicking a ravenous magical dog-man in the face.

Flying kick would make sense if monks had a ~60-70% chance of landing and checks against evasion were made AFTER that, because every other ability, parsed over multiple expansions, and multiple descriptions of disciplines, abilities, etc. all indicate a level of uncertainty. Flying kick only missing 1% of the time on the parses as shown in this log is statistically inconsistent when looking at any other skill.

Here's a thought: what happens with tiger strike/round kick/dragon punch etc. at level 50? Anyone level those skills to max? Would be interesting to see if they follow the same accuracy % as other skills or if they go along with flying kick.

As far as "posting proof of how it was in classic," what about everyone saying it shouldn't change? Why SHOULD it be correct in it's current state?

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as "posting proof of how it was in classic," what about everyone saying it shouldn't change? Why SHOULD it be correct in it's current state?

I agree that monk kick accuracy probably shouldn't be 100%. That being said, the reason people keep asking for proof is because when changes are made without proof a number of difficulties can arise. When you work under the assumption that things in their current state are correct until proven otherwise, you avoid changing things that were correct in the first place. It is basic scientific method - you need to start out with an assumption and then prove or disprove it. Based on previous precedence, the assumption is that the current state of this server is correct.