Idea to stop all the fighting

[Leokaiser]

Instances were definately the adopted solution to the 'few vs the many' problem in endgame EQ, but I think it's a bit of a shallow view to think it's was all about the money. For the majority, MMOs are just games rather than virtual realities where they lead a second life (apart from... well, you know), and thus delivering 'fun' is of paramount importance.

In the days preceeding the release of WoW, EQ was shifting it's focus more and more to the endgame - that was where the 'fun' was percieved to be at by those who played most. However, that fun was in limited supply, and for every few guilds who enjoyed competing, there were more who suffered from the cockblocks this created.

Part of the problem with the p99 endgame is that, as Thana hints at, most people here belonged to the 'few' - too many people wanting to compete, and removing that competition would not fix that.

[arsenalpow]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

Didn't TMO just server a week suspension for training Inny + mobs onto a raid? Amelinda secretly lifted the suspension early, so I guess you can say she condones this behavior.

Train everything in zone onto other raids, have FTE on the raid mob, loot and scoot - that's what the GMs promote.

[quido]

QQ

[Thana8088]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

QQ

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't TMO just server a week suspension for training Inny + mobs onto a raid? Amelinda secretly lifted the suspension early, so I guess you can say she condones this behavior.

Train everything in zone onto other raids, have FTE on the raid mob, loot and scoot - that's what the GMs promote.

It's not up to Amelinda to babysit the playerbase anytime there's a boss fight. Maybe TMO and VD could hold themselves to a higher standard voluntarily. I know, that's a ludicrous concept, adults acting like adults. It's about the mentality of a guild and it's leadership. I wonder how many times Amelinda has had to intervene for issues concerning BDA? (but BDA doesn't kill anything lolz) The answer is none, BDA's leadership is of the mind that we won't be participating in the train wars and other shady practices. We'll do it our way, the loot be damned. At least I'll be able to sleep at night.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

It doesn't always end like this. However, it often happens a great deal when another guild thinks they have FTE or tries to KS a raid mob. IF the other guild took the time to get away from a pull/train and not engage a mob that isn't on their pull, they wouldn't die.

I was at Hate for that Inny, You guys had plenty of time to move when Inny was coming down the ramp and instead, you all stood and most engaged. When your own guild members engage a mob that is not your own guilds, you get added to social aggro, then your group members/guild members spread the aggro via bards/buffs/so-on.

The time on Inny that got us suspended, VD/IB tried to KS Inny and got added via social. They effectively trained themselves. BDA effectively did the exact same thing by jumping the gun.

Edit:

Originally Posted by baub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bro you just wall jump 2 rogues and a warlock into the back of horde's base and summon everyone. meanwhile alliance has a fucking bridge as the only point of entry

I 100% played ally during vanilla and even I could see we were heavily favored on that map!

good times

Yeah, we were able to do this a few times on our server before the horde realized the strategy. On Thunderhorn, we were probably only able to do it a few times. Even after the battlegroups were formed, you could do it against the teams that didn't know about it, until they learned.

That village with 50npcs > The bridge you could just rush across.

I think recently druids/shamans got some knockbacks that were fun for the bridge tho lol.

[quido]

Catterine, let's be friends. I know you're mean to me because you have a crush on me.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't always end like this. However, it often happens a great deal when another guild thinks they have FTE or tries to KS a raid mob. IF the other guild took the time to get away from a pull/train and not engage a mob that isn't on their pull, they wouldn't die.

I was at Hate for that Inny, You guys had plenty of time to move when Inny was coming down the ramp and instead, you all stood and most engaged. When your own guild members engage a mob that is not your own guilds, you get added to social aggro, then your group members/guild members spread the aggro via bards/buffs/so-on.

The time on Inny that got us suspended, VD/IB tried to KS Inny and got added via social. They effectively trained themselves. BDA effectively did the exact same thing by jumping the gun.

Right. You were the last guild there, you trained (sorry PULLED) 30 mobs and inny on everyone. Of course TMO was entitled to that kill right?

I'm not salty I'm just shocked about the state of the endgame. Y'all have been at this bullshit for so long that you're desensitized. I'll let you know when it doesn't seem crazy to me anymore.

[Grozmok]

Originally Posted by Charms [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's funny that all the people saying that this wouldn't be classic are the only people that think having camped loot for hours upon hours from absolutely random drop chances for most every item, would rather continue to sit on their asses and waste more time on such a slowly paced game.

Raiding is no where near like it was on live, because there are no maintenance days. The folks here at P99 think they're making changes that will help the situation, but it's never going to change.

Who the fuck cares if more people have access to the HANDFUL of raid targets and zones around? Only the people who actually enjoy the poopsocking, harassing GMs about the rules, complaining and bitching, and calling contested Everquest mobs in zones like VP or the Planes, 'competition'.

"Oh my god, you mean if shit was instanced, instead of spending 100 hours camping Fear for a set of xyz, they'll be spending 100 hours camping it still?!!!!"

Changing the zones to instances (sans the PvP Server), doesn't change the loot drop chances. The only reason they would increase is due to no system of lockouts, which Everquest most definitely has. And for anyone who wants to argue that you could have six different raids going on per every lockout timer, which would mean up to 6x the loot being dropped, people would be locked to their instance. Have it be lockout upon entry, and first mob killed. Really would be a simple system to prevent loot sales from the planes. If you entered any Plane you had an automatic 3 hour lock to that instance, if you killed a mob, even a trash mob, you'd be locked to that instance for the remainder of the lockout. If the lockout was 3 days, you could do it every three days. If someone really wanted to sit around and buy loot from the planes, they'd have a whopping two chances to do it every six hours, and they'd have to pray that the two raids during that six hours are spaced apart and not going on at the same time. Keep the non-requirement zones contested, Vox, Naggy, Kunark Dragons sans VP, Venril, etc. That's literally the only 'competition' Blue can speak of. I find it absolutely hilarious that people on a non-pvp server are complaining about other people getting primarily no-drop loot, on a server where it matters the least. "OH MAN DID YOU SEE THAT JOE'S GUILD GOT ALL THAT GOOD GEAR LAST NIGHT? THEY'LL BE ABLE TO KILL 1% CLOSER TO THE RATE THAT WE DO NOW! RUH-ROH!!!" Seriously, get over yourselves.

It's too bad it couldn't be done here, it certainly never will be. The only thing that will help Kunark and Planes raid availability is going to be Velious, even then people will still be raiding the Planes and Kunark. Don't expect anything other than what happens day in and day out.

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I agree, the zones not refreshing due to lack of server down time isn't the same as it was on live and something should be done about it.

However, instances are not the answer.