Game Mechanics: Monk kick accuracy

[MrSquirrelbane]

While I don't specifically remember if FK could straight miss in classic, there is one thing that isn't classic with FK. The minimum damage on FK is too high and should be 1. This goes up to 40 damage @ level 51 and scales a bit more as you level to 60.

I think before ZOMG KNEE JERK MONKS ARE TOO POWERFUL WTFHSDA changes it would be prudent to fix that error. Simply giving FK a minimum of 1 instead of 40 will change damage distribution and lower overall dps. Giving FK a 60% miss rate will be crippling with the current state of things melee damage wise.

FK Min dmg source: http://www.monkly-business.net/index...geid=abilities

Yes I realize this was written post Velious, but not everything about every class changed from release to PoP, and its all in one place instead of having to scour the wayback machine for links, or have people read through walls of text to verify facts. (FYI I don't mind posting links to walls of text if someone if willing to read them besides me)

[azeth]

Originally Posted by MrSquirrelbane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giving FK a 60% miss rate will be crippling with the current state of things melee damage wise.

crippling how? you should be doing 75% of the damage you are currently doing, per classic.

[Timzilla]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

crippling how? you should be doing 75% of the damage you are currently doing, per classic.

You should post the classic log parses you're referring to.

[Aadill]

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291

2114 hits were kicks (miss 1387)

Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9

Total Kick Damage: 425,635 (4,358 hits, 2,906 misses; 60%; 98 avg; 62 delay)

Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

MONK.......30..Flying Kick.....200

[Icecometus]

think we got em on the ropes, lets see what happens.

[Timzilla]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291



Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9




Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

Why link posts that don't anything to do with classic EQ? Might as well be links to potatoe blight discussions.

[MrSquirrelbane]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291



Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9




Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

That's some good infoz! As I said I don't remember FK having the ability to miss or not. Looks to me like it did, and as such should be changed.

Melee damage, in general, still needs to be looked at though. Damage distribution is not quite classic (Kunark Beta: Mechanics Forum - Melee Damage Thread) The 1st graph in that post is from kunark era. Second graph is a smaller data sample, but still somewhat telling. I think if melee damage were fixed to be more classic then everyone's damage would go down a little. I'm still working on a sample size near what that guy did in kunark. Its not so easy since there seems to be a completely different damage table for both fear and sky (Another post, same thread) on live p99 right now. Doesn't help that work has been crazy busy! I need more data and on similar mobs so the testing is done in a vacuum. I pretty much just need more hate runs. Seems to be the best place to do these sorta parses.

Timzilla: Don't go hating on Aadill's research for not being perfectly classic. The vast majority of EQ's combat system stayed the same for a very long time. I'd wager that, in regards to FK miss rates, his links were just as valid in 1999-2001 as they were in 2003-2005.

[Timzilla]

The game changed quite a bit when level cap was 70 and AAs figured into combat. A lot of monks had quit by then, the class had been gutted so much by SOE caving into these class envy mobs.

[Aadill]

Let me ask this simple question, then:

Barring ripostes, dodges, blocks, or parries, do you ever miss a flying kick at level 50?

According to the parsers, no. If it is a bug in the parser, then that is something that we can't do anything about. The problem is, no one is straight up saying, "this isn't the case!" so it leads one to believe that the parsers are working correctly and that flying kick is a 100% accurate melee attack. I cannot imagine any skill being 100%, as that goes against VI's original mantra of "everything has a level of uncertainty." With that said, I found various eras of Everquest all pointing to the same thing - the accuracy of flying kick was around 60-70%, much like backstab.

There's reference in some of my posts to the minimum damage being changed to 1 from it's current state of 40, as has been mentioned in this thread. That was a change that happened around Kunark when the later damage tables for monks came out that brought them above everyone else to make up the rest of their DPS that would otherwise be lacking (flying kick does roughly half as much as an average backstab) later on in the game. Yes, various expansions did change combat. There are items now that add directly to damage and even accuracy of certain skills, creating a whole new level of problems with trying to parse it but the data have that I found has numbers have maintained about the same value of accuracy of the ability.

Yes, DPS might be reduced some, but monks get different damage tables at level 51 and again every level after that. This server will not get to a point where monks won't still be near the top of DPS lists, but it's so far removed from other classes at times that it doesn't make sense.

[maegi]

Parses don't lie and Rais verified it's 100% and he's 50. No skill in this game should be 100% accuracy. That's not a nerf if it's changed to be like every other skill in this game, classic or not, no skill in classic or after classic is 100% and never should be. Nerfing is taking away something that wasn't broken. This my friends is totally broken.