Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Blue Community > Blue Server Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:00 PM
lawll lawll is offline
Sarnak

lawll's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philadelphila
Posts: 312
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
EQ was about the spirit of the game, the world and the community. It's why people tolerated sitting in the same camp for six hours at a time, day after day. It's why people accepted that some levels could take weeks. It's why it was okay that others could interfere with your ability to raid. Then they took away the reason why these things were acceptable, so they had to change those things as well, and in the end the game just wasn't recognizable.
People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.
__________________
  #202  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Atmas Atmas is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the bushes outside your window
Posts: 1,007
Default

Historically when asked this question I had answers similar to other people:Complaints such as the addition of PoK which made travel trivial. Adding GoD which "streamlined" raid content, actually just making it boring cut and paste content. Or just going past PoP which was an epic storyline where you killed the gods, a good finish. Some people didn't like Luclin because going to the moon broke their opinion of the fantasy motif.

But the truth is that it was an inevitability.

At any point you add new content it either is on par with old content gains giving you a sense of new encounter but no stat gain or it gives you stat gain thus eventually trivalizing the importance of old content. The thing is neither of these are sustainable, as eventually with the former you grow tired off the repetitve re-hashing of new encounters for no progression or with the later the feeling that you are just doing tier after tier for a systematic x% increase in stats to do new content.

Take a thing like AAs, some people (myself included) loved them because you had an oppurtunity to increase your characters power, others hated that it was just forced added objectives for progression. Much like other forms of Artwork whenever something is added it polarizes people.

Velious was a great expansion but you couldn't do another 5 expansions on similar premises of progression. Some people seem to feel like the game would keep going indefinitely if no content was added. I think the turnover rate and impending soaring numbers and eventual decline with the launch of Velious will be a testament to the fact that you are basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.
__________________
60 Wixxor - Atmas
60 Paladin - Opmeter
54 Rogue - Ories
Some other toons
Formerly of TZ
  #203  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Houdiny Houdiny is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.
Not sure I agree with this entirely. I think WoW released at the best possible time and had some things go it's way to become what it is. Couple of things I think affected it that weren't necessarily because of EQ.

WoW released at a time when people had devoted more time to EQ than most generally any other game they had ever played. At first EQ was new to them, and they played it religiously. Then came along something new. Much like DAoC it took a lot of EQ players initially. The thing WoW had was a niche market. The casual gamer. A lot of people simply did not have the time to devote that EQ requires. So they played WoW because they could accomplish a lot more for their time invested.

And once the ball got rolling so many people started playing WoW that everyone else fell in line and played it because that is where everyone was at. If you can play a game with several of your friends opposed to a game you couldn't your going to choose the game where all your friends are.

There was no doubt WoW had some very intriguing features and things that other MMO's didn't. But it didn't take long for every MMO to copy and paste all the features that people liked. So it wasn't so much the features that kept people playing. It was an easy playing environment, with a vast subscription base, and most of all it didn't require a monster of a computer to run (not that EQ did) but other games released after WoW were graphics intense and had several issues. With WoW you could basically go out and buy a Wal Mart machine and run it fairly well.

I think there was many things that added to WoW's success. I refer too it as "the perfect storm". As a game, the lore isn't all that great, graphics are sub par, and gameplay is average at best. I tried it a couple of different times because all my friends were playing it. But it didn't take me long to get burnt out on it. The recurring theme was people left the game and you knew they were going to be back.

Another variable I think plays into it is the fact that many people started playing WoW because the MMO industry had gotten so big. And there was so many people playing it that for many WoW was their first MMO experience. And we all know how that first experience feels. It's hard to let go. I remember playing Counterstrike and the guys in my clan disappeared to play WoW. A kind of game they had never even tried. They mostly played FPS's It was amazing to me at the people who were actually playing the game.

But as I said once you have 3 or 4 million subs everybody you know is playing it and it's "the place to be"
  #204  
Old 08-16-2012, 01:47 PM
lawll lawll is offline
Sarnak

lawll's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philadelphila
Posts: 312
Default

So WoW's success has nothing to do with the amount of polish that no mmo game has ever seen. One of the most flexible game engines ever made that gets updated every expansion (looks nothing like it did back in 04). Huge amounts of 3rd party addons that's still has better support that any other mmo. So screw all the milestones that blizzard has met with WoW, I hate it because the got rid of they grind and went straight to the point. Also EQ is just a very unforgiving game. Raiding in WoW is wayy more complex then just tank and spank aoe fearing dragons. You seem very bias with blizzard/wow totally skipping over everything good it has done for the mmo world.
__________________
  #205  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:10 PM
Houdiny Houdiny is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So WoW's success has nothing to do with the amount of polish that no mmo game has ever seen. One of the most flexible game engines ever made that gets updated every expansion (looks nothing like it did back in 04). Huge amounts of 3rd party addons that's still has better support that any other mmo. So screw all the milestones that blizzard has met with WoW, I hate it because the got rid of they grind and went straight to the point. Also EQ is just a very unforgiving game. Raiding in WoW is wayy more complex then just tank and spank aoe fearing dragons. You seem very bias with blizzard/wow totally skipping over everything good it has done for the mmo world.
Oh I'm sure I am somewhat bias. I wont argue that. And I do think WoW has brought some great things to MMO's. I noted that. There are some great things that WoW has done. Their subscription numbers and longevity alone indicate that. I am not saying WoW is a bad game either. It's just easier for people to play. Pull up your map, run around grabbing the blinking quests, then go where the blinking tells you to so that you can complete said quest then follow the blink to turn it in.

It brought about a solo mentality that was not prevalent with EQ. Sure people in EQ solo'd but you had to be the right class. And even then it was conditional. Everything about WoW tailored to the casual gamer is all I'm saying. And I do think WoW has a lot to do with the good in MMO's. But it also has a LOT to do with the very bad in MMO's also. If I wanted to solo my way to max level on every character I started I wouldn't pay $15 a month to play an MMO. I would simply get a RPG off the shelf at Wal Mart. The true definition of the MMO is exactly what it stands for...massive mulltiplayer online. It's a bunch of people working together to accomplish things. Not running through grabbing every quest in sight and completing it like a mindless zombie.

The endless amounts of fly by night companies developing up half ass games. Everyone wants to get in the market because they see the money being made from WoW. You don't have people like Brad McQuaid pouring their visions into a game completely ignorant to the financial side. You get companies rushed by investors to get their product out and compete with WoW. And it always fails. And of course this isn't Blizzard and WoW's fault. It's the idiots who can't grasp what makes a business prosper.

A few friends of friends tried making a transition from WoW to many other games over the years. And it never lasts more than 2 days. They get sick and tired of adventuring around finding the NPC they are after. If it isn't spoon fed to them they give up. I enjoy running around exploring stuff. I like seeing the game the devs make for us. I like finding little things that a dev went the extra mile to create. And I will be the first to admit I am probably in the minority with that. But a lot of aspects of MMO's these days are overlooked because everything is so linear. Go here, do this, go there, do that. It's cheaper, easier to develop, and much quicker to make. And therefor to me simply not as good. If I want to take a group off the beaten path and exp somewhere nobody else does I should be able too.

And I'm no SoE fan boy either. I'm not tooting their horn by any means. I have my beefs with them as well. And I also like some of Blizzards games, and like them as a company. I just think a lot of WoW's popularity had to do with it being so easy a caveman can do it.

And on a last note, EQ raiding is more than just Dragons and fear. Should try life outside of Kunark/Velious. I ran into many many complicating strats along the way in EQ until I quit live. Sure at the beginning the strats were easy. But that was when MMO's were new. All of them started getting more complex. It wasn't like WoW created tough raiding. MMO industry evolving has done that.
Last edited by Houdiny; 08-16-2012 at 04:22 PM..
  #206  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:27 PM
Zithax Zithax is offline
Sarnak

Zithax's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fine Steel Long Swords
Posts: 380
Default

Art in Luclin was a real dissociation from classic EQ, that and the first gimmicky concepts were introduced.
__________________
"well, shit son." - ZITHAX
  #207  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:04 PM
kaev kaev is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,909
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.
_Some_ people, not all. There's no denying that WoW had (and has) a much broader appeal than EQ, but broad != universal. AFAICT, a fair few of players who abandoned EQ when the game became unrecognizable to them, never played WoW or did not stick with it if they did (the former is my experience.) But it's not correct to generalize that either.

But, as I said in my earlier post, it's the players who really changed the game, Verant/SOE just went along with the crowd. It wasn't Verant/SOE that created thousands and thousands of Gnome Necromancers when some website pronounced that the "best" race/class option. It wasn't Verant/SOE that filled the planes with PUGs full of shit-talking loot whores in the weeks/months leading up to Kunark. Just as it isn't the P99 staff that filled this server with stupid numbers of solo-kiting Bards and ridiculously over-geared Monk twinks.

You want to know where EQ Live went wrong? Look in the mirror.
  #208  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:32 AM
raptorak raptorak is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 186
Default

I think EQ went wrong when they made the melee classes - they suck balls and melee combat is no fun at all, and the warrior class has to be the most boring implementation of a warrior in any game I have ever played. You only have to play WoW for 5 minutes as a warrior/rogue to see that the melee system is far more dynamic and interesting, and for that WoW killed Everquest.

Want to have fun as a melee you better roll a hybrid - OH WAIT - 40% exp penalty in a game with ridiculously slow levelling.

A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You slash a decaying skeleton for 1 point of damage!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You are unconscious!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You have been slain by a decaying skeleton!

It is a shame really, because the casting classes in this game are awesome as is the whole world, most of the Classic zones and atmosphere.
  #209  
Old 08-17-2012, 03:41 PM
Houdiny Houdiny is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 108
Default

I guess the biggest difference is play styles. Me and a couple of my buddies love a game that knocks ya down and kicks dirt in your face. We like a challenge. Everything is so much more rewarding. It's hard even getting a group, let alone one in a good place with a drop you might need. But when u get an awesome group you never want to leave.

With WoW it had so many things to aid the casual guy. The auto dungeon finder, the ability to log in with a few minutes to spare and still get something accomplished. Which is the cats meow for casual players. But not everybody likes that.

So I guess I am in the minority. I played WoW to max level early on when the game initially released. I raided a bit and then quit. I went back a couple times starting new characters but it just didn't grab me.

But yes WoW has done many many nice things for the MMO industry. It got a ton of people involved that never would be that's for sure. I think that is more Blizzards marketing scheme then the game though. Not many MMO's are out there and in your face like Blizzards. You go to wal mart there is boxes after boxes, all kinds of gameplay cards so even a kid can play it. They did a great job of making sure their product was in the publics eye. Something a lot of MMO companies don't do. They just offer downloads.
  #210  
Old 08-17-2012, 03:43 PM
azeth azeth is offline
Planar Protector

azeth's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
WoW killed Everquest..
Debatable. WoW was released 11/2004.. Sony had driven EQ into the ground by that point.

Consensus is EQ peaked at Velious, trailed off at SoL, picked up with PoP and the rest is history from 2003 on.

This is ridiculous revisionist history, but if somehow WoW premiered in 2002 or earlier, it wouldn't have been nearly as successful initially. WoW really hit the jackpot with both timing (absorbing jaded ex-EQ players), and recognizing that the masses have interest in gaming for 1-2 hours at a time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endonde View Post
Yea well you know, 6 years of Velious everything has been killed, only thing left to do is speedrun killing Detoxx guilds.
Last edited by azeth; 08-17-2012 at 03:55 PM..
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:03 PM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.