OCCUPY WALLSTREET!

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Muchew [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's pushed on us because of the wars we go into to continue to make it cheap... Oil company's lobby to make sure we continue to use oil. Oil company's shut down the movement to electric vehicles in the early 90's. On top of that, they completely ignore the environmental issues raised by keeping their product affordable.

The war in Iraq did not help us keep oil prices cheap. Look at what's happened to the price of oil since that war began. It helped us ensure future access to the oil, but it didn't help us make it cheap.

Everything else you mention is called a free market. There isn't any legislation that shoves oil down our throats. It's no coincidence that oil companies are going to oppose a move to electric vehicles -- it's a replacement product. It's no different than cereal companies trying to prevent a national shift to oatmeal. There's nothing shady about it -- it's simply good business.

The environmental issues are externalities. It's a market failure. If social will were to support it, it would be the government's job to cap, tax, or in some other way penalize pollution or promote environmentally-friendly dealings in order to make it rational for firms to move away from oil. And that would be extraordinarily expensive for the nation as a whole. In truth, it's not something the nation supports yet. And it won't be until a similarly-priced alternative is found, or until the price of oil rises beyond the means of the average citizen.

As of now, everything in America is dependent on oil prices. Transportation, groceries, even paint. So if you artificially bump oil prices in order to incentivize other energy sources, you're going to drastically raise the cost of living and fundamentally alter many of the businesses in the country. One point of view is that this is inevitable, since oil is a finite resource that we'll deplete in the relatively near future, and we might as well take our lumps on our own terms, rather than simply letting its scarcity drive price beyond our means. Another point of view is that our economy should ride the oil train as long as it can while we pour federal R&D money into finding suitable alternatives. Some people think we should simply eliminate a lot of our wasteful energy practices, regardless of the energy source. But regardless of where you stand on the spectrum, facts are facts. And the fact is that it would take an extraordinary financial investment in order to overhaul the American energy sector.

PS, I never said anything about the DoE.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

facts are facts

I understand everything you just said and can and would make the same observations. The problem of the "free market" situation we currently live in is that it is reactionary and not cautionary. Like you said, it will require the resource running out or the price being too high... .... then what? That seems entirely irresponsible.

Shit I use gas every day, I know it. It's balls. I've cut down on any plastic I use and recycle all that I can. Even that is too expensive/inefficient at the moment to make it worth it in a business sense, but it's a cautionary measure to make sure we don't use or waste as much. That's not happening on a large enough scale, which is the root of the problem of the "free market" scenario that you've described. Good business? For now, perhaps. Good sense? Fuck no.

[Drem]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the "occupy Boston" version of this "protest" is pretty hilarious. Every radio station/news network is unable to get a straight answer from any of the "protestors" regarding why they're even there.

TBH - get the fuck out of Boston. The only "99%" stat thats obvious to identify is the fact that 99% of these idiots are homeless fucking drifters shtitting up public transportation and bathing in McDonalds restrooms.

this sums up the occupy Eugene movement as well

[Psionide]

please take a look at how many american oil companies have bids in Iraq. Iraq oil is not American oil if anything its Europe's oil.