Blue vs. Red

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Reguiy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You ever played any other pvp games? EQ is completely unbalanced. Doesn't have gear based around pvp. Is basically all RNG. No real system for interrupts. So more RNG. Horribly long cast times. Stealth classes get negated by 1 item. Zoning. Resists. You're fighting essentially to fuck over the other person's day. Corpse runs. Jousting...lol...jousting. Melees get like 2 abilities. Plus a million other reasons I can't think of off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that r99 is a cesspool.

I''m kinda all over the place, I know. It's hard to really get into it, as there's SO many reason why it's terrible. I played VZ and SZ back in the day and had a blast...but then again, I was a teenager and didn't know any better. Then I played other pvp games and realized how terrible EQ was. Now I prefer to play pvp games with proper balance,
that involve real skill, and most importantly, are fun.


P.S. - Damn, Lune. 10/10.

The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.



Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique abilities that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.

[Giren]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.



Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique roles that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

[quido]

I think EQ pvp is great. Yes some classes suck usually, but their niche helpfulness in some situations is indispensible.

Most people who say EQ pvp sucks are just too big of pussies to get decent at it.

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I saw the outlines for N vs S Korea and lost it. Bravo!

Still tool around on red while waiting for groups/spawns on blue though. There are a few good eggs on red.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Giren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

Class balancing is the main reason that pvp heavy games like WoW and GW suck so hard. All classes end up with too many spam abilities and it ruins any chance of having a class that feels unique.

[Giren]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class balancing is the main reason that pvp heavy games like WoW and GW suck so hard. All classes end up with too many spam abilities and it ruins any chance of having a class that feels unique.

WoW was not created with PvP as a focus.

I could see the argument being made for GW.

But how about a game that is nothing but PvP, like League of Legends?

League of Legends was able to do a game with class balancing with most of the choices feeling different.

Class balancing done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right.

[Tulnavara]

Thought it would be this left disappointed.

[Dacuk]

i will say, i played blue on live, and when i started up on eq emu I tried pvp with some friends. that was 4 years ago, and i have not played a minute on a non pvp server since then. good eq pvp, both small and large scale, is one of the biggest adrenaline rushes you can have gaming.

if anyone wants to give it a shot, send me a pm, would be happy to help you out with noob items / ports / binds / rezes

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Giren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

I am not implying balance is simple. I am saying that you cant compare individual pieces to other pieces in a game to see how balanced it is. Too many games now think pvp means simpler. It creates games like checkers where every pieces is the same because no one wants one other person to have an advantage over them because "thats not fair or balanced from my perspective". They want to be able to kill everyone else equally.

[Reguiy]

Don't wanna get too into this, but I'll give it a once over.

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.
Your point about all classes being homogenized is a little off based. Unique classes is a good thing. But the bad balance in EQ isn't about different classes filling different unique roles. It's about certain classes being able to fill multiple roles and doing each role much better than other classes (ie - bards and SKs). Sure, rangers have track, and pallies have stuns, and shamans have buffs. But that's all they have and they are turned into track/stun/buffs bots.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.
I mean RNG (random number generator). Not range. RNG is stupid. When I cast a spell I like to know it's going to do something.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.
I don't understand your point. Good ping is important, just like any other pvp game.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.
Ok? Sure levitate is cool I guess. Eq doesn't implement it well as it requires you to be in first person to even have complete control of your mobility.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.
Stacking resists is stupid. Makes game about luck and not skill.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?
Ok sorry. You get 3 in an engagement unless it lasts longer than 30 minutes. My bad.

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.
Running back and forth for 10 minutes is not fun. It may involve some sort of timing skill, but no critical thinking or that great of mechanics. Also, it's ironic that you site faster ISP as a bad thing previously, because that's most of what jousting is.


Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique abilities that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.