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  #31  
Old 09-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Torven Torven is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Uthgaard claim to have access to both TR and TMO's forums?
  #32  
Old 09-04-2011, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokfarg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I even wonder if it would be technically possible to make dungeon/raid instances in EQemu? That would be a feat for sure to accomplish. They would have to drastically lower the drop rate of the loot off the boss mobs.
Certainly possible. Go take a look at the EZ server.

It wont happen here, but yes, it is possible.

The real solution is for people to stop acting like they're still in high school/middle school and to fucking be somewhat reasonable to each other, but that's not going to happen either. Nilbog deciding to say "Fuck you all, you're worthless." and locking the server to everyone is far more likely than people actually not acting like douche bags anymore (and Nilbog deciding to do that is a pretty far fetched, remote possibility)
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  #33  
Old 09-04-2011, 10:28 PM
soup soup is offline
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I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.
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  #34  
Old 09-05-2011, 12:23 AM
citizen1080 citizen1080 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.
This



Grow the Fuck up
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  #35  
Old 09-05-2011, 05:57 AM
bakkily bakkily is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.
yea, i agree, and to the post above me saying grow up, heh ok

he's making a point saying that we all play like punk teenagers in a way

but the mentality of the majority is sadly dissapointing, not all, but most
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2011, 12:45 PM
stormlord stormlord is offline
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I don't think instancing should be used as a solution and here's why...

a) It would increase the influx of raid items into the economy
b) EQ was developed with the raid limits in mind

Whether we like it or not, the raid limits were probably intentional. Just like how some items were no drop or some items were expensive or how named didn't pop whenever we wanted them too.

Now, whether it's a good idea or not to limit the rate of incoming raid items by having a limited number of raid targets AND a long spawn time, THAT is a question for another project.

If we...
* instance raids
* add more of them by creating additional zones/spawns
* decrease spawn times
* increase the number of items per loot
* some other method

...to increase raid item accessibility for guilds (with some methods, like decreased spawn time, having the caveat that GM's and players will restrict their play so that other guilds have a chance to kill the raid targets), then we must also account for the increased abundance of raid items in the economy and how that will change the game.

EQ was not made with that in mind. So, if there're going to be more raid items or more ability for people to raid then it's likely that the rest of the game would have to be altered in some way to accommodate it.

Ofc, changing EQ as it was to fit our desires is not what p1999 is about.

I have a million things I'd like to change and could go on and on about it, but to have at least one server that attempts to be true to history is too valuable to me. First, it serves as a recording of what was and is useful when trying to retrace what we did and trying to figure out where we went from there and which is the best course to take when resolving old problems. Second, it's a source of nostalgia for many of us to go back in time and to see some of the things we didn't get a chance to see the first time around. It's like having a second chance to relive history.

The server is not a huge success, as the live servers routinely had 2000 or more players on them, but we are able to marshal 700+ at peak times. That far exceeds the other eq emulated servers when considering that boxing is a ban-able offense here. IMHO, interest for this server would be a lot greater if it was actively supported by SOE rather than opposed. But, essentially, I don't believe any failures in the raiding scene are reason enough to change the game.

And another issue is that most people aren't raiders. And we all know EQ classic is OLD. Not everything about it is fun or engaging. Like I said, there're many things that could be improved. But to be honest, it's a carcass - not worth it.

If most people raided then a change like this would be implemented almost immediately. Take travel/communication, for example. Everyone needs to do this things. So back when the population was lower there was an obvious need for global chat, even though that was not how EQ was during that point in time. When the population was higher, the server decided to remove global chat until global chat channels were introduced OR the population fell too low again before chat channels are implemented. It's the majority that matters because anytime you change hte game you risk losing some of yoru population. If you go with a minority and change hte game you risk losing your majority. It's basic, simple logic.

I know I've made some baseless assertions here, but we all do. Thanks for reading.
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Raiding: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=109
P1999 Class Popularity Chart: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=48
P1999 PvP Statistics: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=59

"Global chat is to conversation what pok books are to travel, but without sufficient population it doesn't matter."
Last edited by stormlord; 09-05-2011 at 01:04 PM..
  #37  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:11 PM
ownrage ownrage is offline
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I'll post my instancing idea that i had posted on my guild site...

Have an NPC in the zone before the raid zone like TT for Seb, LS for Solb, etc. There will still be the public normal version of the zone but also an NPC that will respond to a command allowing a guild to enter an instance of the zone.

Within the raid zone, have it be a full pop will all mobs...make it where the guild must fight their way down...meaning if they try to skip mobs, at a certain interval random mobs from the zone will be summoned to the raid...all trash mobs should have something like 40 min repop timer...

No trash mobs will drop any items and only the raid mob will have its loot table...this way it doesn't draw away from grouping in public versions of solb/seb/etc...however you still must kill all the mobs...

Well what about raid targets in huge outdoor zones? Not sure...haven't thought that through...instance the entire zone? *shrug...i'll let other contributors chime in.

What about Naggy/Vox? U can't enter instance if above 52...and BnB's/Freeti and Terrors, etc. mobs will still pose a threat if not kept in check. Or hell leave these 2 raids uninstanced...since their loot tables are mostly on Kunark dragons too anyways...and top tier guilds probably won't waste time on them...opening them up to public raids or whatever guild doesn't really want to instance their own stuff...

I think this will draw people to come back to the server...other than griefing and taking up GM time, why else was instancing brought to EQ?

I'll gamble a theory that a lot of the EQ players grew up with families and jobs. We don't have the time like the other top guilds on the server to poopsock...instancing broadened the range of agegroups able to enjoy this game for everything it has to offer.

Is it EZmode? maybe to a certain extent...it allows easier access to raid content, but just because you have easier access to raid content doesn't make the content themselves easy.

Just my 2 cents...

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  #38  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:19 PM
mgellan mgellan is offline
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Dunno, simplest solution to me is if a guild misbehaves, delete it and give the leadership a temp or perm ban. If peeps ragequit over that, then most of the dicks disappear which is perfectly fine. The side benefit is the smaller guilds 1. Keep their high level players rather than losing them to raid guilds and 2. raid mobs open up to small guilds.

Why put up with the drama? I'd love to put up a server that is raid-guild hostile, seems to me it'd be quieter and more fun for 80% of the players [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regards,
Mg
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  #39  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:55 PM
stormlord stormlord is offline
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Why do solutions always seem like they were gotten from the Gaming 101 for Dummies book?

Instancing is a nice solution for overpopulation in content, especially nice for developers, but it robs the world of social interaction and instead of playing in different content to keep yourself occupied, you're playing in the same exact content that everyone else is playing in. Instancing extends the life of already existing content - at the cost of other things.

The industry needs to look at other possibilities that don't reduce social interaction, and should encourage new content as opposed to the mirroring of already existing content (to save resources).

But I think instancing is probably the cheapest method right now and that's why it's used, among a few other reasons. However, this does not mean the same will remain true indefinitely.

I picture several things:
1) Dynamic spawns and spawn times
2) Whole dynamic zones that despawn and spawn based on changing conditions
3) Spawning that's based on population

Those're the first few things that come to mind. This takes me way back to Diablo II. In that game, when population goes up the creatures would drop higher rewards and better loot (with some increase in hitpoints and dps of the creatures you fight). This extended the usability of the content and ensured that if you couldn't find others to help you kill something because there was no one else then you could have a reasonable chance of doing it yourself (the creatures become easier). It also meant that when more players entered the server that things would get a bit harder and last longer.

Just imagine zoning into lower guk and seeing that there're too many people in the zone and there's no room for more groups or people. Now imagine that instead of leaving the zone to find something else, that the game increased the power of the creatures just enough that there'd be room for you somewhere. So instead of everyone else keeping all of the spawns clear, there might be several leftover so that you have something to do. This kind of change would probably entail numerous other changes in EQ, but it shows how something like this roughly works.

A server that's designed to dynamically respond to population, low or high, is not going to collapse when the population changes. EQ was (less so today, but I'd still argue that it's) highly dependent on population. But in any case, when a server can do this it will tolerate population changes much more effectively.

But I'd like to see more dynamic dungeons or zones that're created to be open world (not instanced). These dungeons might only exist for a time, dependent on other factors. They could have random elements inside and be sprinkled across the world in different places. It would be a bit like ldons except that everyone could enter.

I'd lke to see more land area and a travel system that's similar to UO's. One where players are in control of the travel system and can travel instantly to different locations they have stored in their travel book. One way to produce lots of content is to pregenerate it. While the content will not have the kind of quality we're used to in handmade content, it will be abundant and it won't come at the cost of social interaction or other negatives associated with instancing.

I've just given a few ideas here. But there're countless things. Instancing is just one way to reduce the chance that players will hit a road block in their progression. If you don't understand the underlying cause of these things, you might think instancing was made in the bible or given to man from god. Once you do understand the causes that lead developers to make instanced content, then you can see how other answers are possible if they're investigated and employed in new projects. But it has to be with conviction and not a halfass attempt - nothing is easy.

It just feels real contrived to me; the whole instancing thing. I always get this horrible feeling that it's just another excuse for people to be private and stick to their circle of friends. I don't think worlds should go too much in that direction. Spontaneous meetings are not bad and nor were PUGs. PUGs were one of the greatest things about the older game. A game where everyone is so private is not socially rich. It's a reflection of our society too, not just MMOs in general.
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Raiding: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=109
P1999 Class Popularity Chart: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=48
P1999 PvP Statistics: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=59

"Global chat is to conversation what pok books are to travel, but without sufficient population it doesn't matter."
Last edited by stormlord; 09-05-2011 at 02:22 PM..
  #40  
Old 09-05-2011, 02:08 PM
mokfarg mokfarg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ownrage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'll post my instancing idea that i had posted on my guild site...

Have an NPC in the zone before the raid zone like TT for Seb, LS for Solb, etc. There will still be the public normal version of the zone but also an NPC that will respond to a command allowing a guild to enter an instance of the zone.

Within the raid zone, have it be a full pop will all mobs...make it where the guild must fight their way down...meaning if they try to skip mobs, at a certain interval random mobs from the zone will be summoned to the raid...all trash mobs should have something like 40 min repop timer...

No trash mobs will drop any items and only the raid mob will have its loot table...this way it doesn't draw away from grouping in public versions of solb/seb/etc...however you still must kill all the mobs...

Well what about raid targets in huge outdoor zones? Not sure...haven't thought that through...instance the entire zone? *shrug...i'll let other contributors chime in.

What about Naggy/Vox? U can't enter instance if above 52...and BnB's/Freeti and Terrors, etc. mobs will still pose a threat if not kept in check. Or hell leave these 2 raids uninstanced...since their loot tables are mostly on Kunark dragons too anyways...and top tier guilds probably won't waste time on them...opening them up to public raids or whatever guild doesn't really want to instance their own stuff...

I think this will draw people to come back to the server...other than griefing and taking up GM time, why else was instancing brought to EQ?

I'll gamble a theory that a lot of the EQ players grew up with families and jobs. We don't have the time like the other top guilds on the server to poopsock...instancing broadened the range of agegroups able to enjoy this game for everything it has to offer.

Is it EZmode? maybe to a certain extent...it allows easier access to raid content, but just because you have easier access to raid content doesn't make the content themselves easy.

Just my 2 cents...

<3 bubbles.
Edit: One thing I would add to your idea is, if the raid mobs were instanced the drop rate should be extremely low. This way everyone would get a whack at killing bosses but not necessarily the loot becoming completely common.

Fun to think about how to improve classic EQ while keeping it's spirit. The goal on this server is to be 100% classic so I doubt it would happen. Later Nilbog and others mentioned a custom server.

I would like to see how Nilbog, Rogean would envision a Everquest 2.0 while keeping in the spirit of classic. Instancing raid targets would be a neat addition, as would custom AAs, customizing each class to where they could still be unique and solo monsters, bigger grouping xp bonuses, lesser solo xp, maybe a few auctioneer npcs in E common tunnel? I imagine with their skill they could do some really cool stuff without altering the trilogy game world too much. I think it still should be the same lore, zones, etc but 2.0! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Last edited by mokfarg; 09-05-2011 at 02:14 PM..
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