Game Mechanics: Invis and Invis to Undead - /consider issues

[Ele]

1. Specter type mobs need large chance to see through ITU, if not innate see through ITU/Invis.
   
2. Mobs that are always KOS should consider KOS even if successful invis or invis to undead. Might be a split between Kunark mobs and old world mobs, based on some of the comments.
   

Testing on Oasis Spectres with a 23 cleric and invis to undead. The spectres do not see through my invis to undead and give indifferent consider responses.
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This EQ Clerics thread has a few interesting points that need potential implementation on P99.

Summer 2000 (Mid-Kunark Era)
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6386

All spec like mobs see though all forms of invis, take the liches in Hate. See though invis invis undead and rogue sneak/hide.

specs can see through invis and undead invis for the longest time.

If you are invis undead mobs still con ready to attack!

Also, Spectres have seen through invis undead for a long time now.


99% of kunark mobs DO NOT see through invis undead. How do I know? Ive tested is why. I sat right next to an undead krup frog in seb, Ive traversed in kaesora freely, Ive played around in Charasis, Ive walked up to Blood of Choatl and waved at him. It works!!

I have never had a spectre NOT see through Invis to Undead or Sunskin.

If you are invisible to a mob, it will con indifferent. Otherwise it will have it's normal faction /con.

Spectres were changed a long while ago to see through invis undead.

Kunark mobs don't follow the normal /con rules for invisibility. You will see your faction /con message whether you are actually invisible to it or not.

found that some saw through invis right away, others did not.

In Kaesora you can cast Invis Undead but the mobs NEVER con Indiff. They ALWAYS stay at Scowling but they DON'T see you. So Con DOESN'T always tell you if your invis or not in Kunark. In the old world it did.

Specs see thru invis undead. Or if they have a chance to see as one person said they have a 97% chance of seeing you.

Critters that are KOS to everyone permenently will always con ready to attack regardless of having invisiblity on.

Its annoying but true. It cons indifferent in lguk because froggies have faction. Spectres always attack ya so they always con ready to attack.

The key concept is - if it is always KOS regardless of what you have done or who you are then it will always scowl ready to attack regardless of whether or not invisibility is working.

[nilbog]

After reviewing this on eqlive, here are my results so far:

Feerrott spectres - See through invis vs undead 100% of the time. Also flee.

OOT spectres - Do not see through invis vs undead. Also flee.

Oasis spectres - Do not see through invis vs undead. Also flee.

[Nirgon]

Yeah I know you couldn't IVU thru the fear cave to avoid the specs there.

Try getting one of those spectres in Oasis to low hp when it cons between blue and yellow on eqmac and tell me what happens if you give it a minute =).

Should see some bubbles!

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Bamzal Sherbet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and what relevance does that have towards his findings exactly?

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Specter type mobs need large chance to see through ITU, if not innate see through ITU/Invis.

It serves as 1 of 3 possible baseline comparisons. eqlive, eqmac, and research.

[Sundawg]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After reviewing this on eqlive, here are my results so far:

Feerrott spectres - See through invis vs undead 100% of the time. Also flee.

OOT spectres - Do not see through invis vs undead. Also flee.

Oasis spectres - Do not see through invis vs undead. Also flee.

Same on EQmac.

[Ele]

Good findings, thanks for helping pin this down.

[Ele]

nilbog and sundawg, did they give the scowls message when they did not see through ITU?

[Sundawg]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nilbog and sundawg, did they give the scowls message when they did not see through ITU?

No, they were indifferent to a toon with ITU.

edit:

Feerrott specters will now see through ITU. Specters in Oasis, OOT, and Feerrott will now flee at low health. Feerrott specters will no longer assist one another.

Fixed, pending update.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nilbog and sundawg, did they give the scowls message when they did not see through ITU?

No, they didn't.

But, considering when the research information was from, it might fall under the same scenario of scowls/does not aggro of the crocodiles in oasis. If invis, show persistent scowl, even though you're invised and it might not attack you. Possibility which needs more research.. and if that's the case, an additional npc case flag. This functionality exists nowhere, and might be hard to prove.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, they didn't.

But, considering when the research information was from, it might fall under the same scenario of scowls/does not aggro of the crocodiles in oasis. If invis, show persistent scowl, even though you're invised and it might not attack you. Possibility which needs more research.. and if that's the case, an additional npc case flag. This functionality exists nowhere, and might be hard to prove.

Several the quotes above seemed to provide some context that it may be a Kunark and later specific thing for being invis/itu but showing still the "scowls" message on always KOS mobs.

Will see what I can dig up.

If you are invis undead mobs still con ready to attack!

...

99% of kunark mobs DO NOT see through invis undead. How do I know? Ive tested is why. I sat right next to an undead krup frog in seb, Ive traversed in kaesora freely, Ive played around in Charasis, Ive walked up to Blood of Choatl and waved at him. It works!!

If you are invisible to a mob, it will con indifferent. Otherwise it will have it's normal faction /con.

...

Kunark mobs don't follow the normal /con rules for invisibility. You will see your faction /con message whether you are actually invisible to it or not.

In Kaesora you can cast Invis Undead but the mobs NEVER con Indiff. They ALWAYS stay at Scowling but they DON'T see you. So Con DOESN'T always tell you if your invis or not in Kunark. In the old world it did.