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  #211  
Old 01-26-2014, 08:14 PM
cyryllis cyryllis is offline
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backed pantheon with $100, but I'm sad to say I am not really sure if they will reach their goals. Hopefully some crazy people out there toss in a few grand each. Dont have high hopes- but maybe something great will happen
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  #212  
Old 01-26-2014, 08:26 PM
stormlord stormlord is offline
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I wonder what the popularity of cross-server travel or mentoring down AND up would be? Personally, I'm beginning to think as long as the game is trying to challenge us and is able to explain these things with lore and it all fits together then I'm not sure I'm against it. Typically I would be, but that's because the games which do these things first are usually the casual ones. I guess it depends how it's done. If I can group with someone on any server and get going in an instance almost immediately, how is reputation and a sense of community or home going to be preserved? Wouldn't that be like playing in a sea of other players? Maybe it could somehow and I'm open to it, I just hope some resemblance to a smaller-scale environment can be preserved.

I do think players like us as a community have to be more open to these sorts of things. An interesting idea is if they're going to use these typically casual features, why not innovate on them? So rather than just copying XYZ features from other MMO's, take em and rethink them on some level to make them Pantheon-esque. This way it's distinctive and if players are critical of it they can't say it's - in precise terms - cloned.

Imagine for a moment through some miracle Pantheon passes the kickstarter and proceeds to pass its future budget goals and launches in 2017-2020 and does so in a reasonably bug free fashion with a game that has enough in common with other modern mmo's that when players play it they don't immediately criticize it. If the game stays niche and doesn't adopt some of the modern features it'll be a lot easier to criticize. And when a game is criticized in various reviews other players will be less likely to give it a try.

Brad has stated they expect upwards of 25,000 to 50,000 players. In my mind, that means they should be developing this game with the expectation their population will be considerably more casual. If they do this then this can give them some extra room for error. The future is very hard to predict, after all.

The sooner Brad and his team can "casualize" the Pantheon vision the better for its future. If they can do this while convincing the majority of us it's still an EQ-like game then it has a chance.

Just having "Brad McQuaid" on the game gives me a feeling of nostalgia. I wonder if anyone else feels that? I want to see Brad make a game that works and doesn't fall apart like the last one did.
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"Global chat is to conversation what pok books are to travel, but without sufficient population it doesn't matter."
Last edited by stormlord; 01-26-2014 at 08:54 PM..
  #213  
Old 01-27-2014, 05:11 AM
Kuldiin Kuldiin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceythos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Couldn't agree more. Death should be feared, but it also shouldn't kick you too hard in the privates every time, either. Otherwise you end up getting far more frustration than enjoyment. Also if it's *too* harsh, it could lead to discouraging exploration.
Make it zone based? The tougher the zone, the greater the reward, but also the harsher the penalty. Can't handle the penalty? Then stay the hell away from the zone!

Im sure I'm not alone in saying I want there to be zones I literally fear to enter.
Last edited by Kuldiin; 01-27-2014 at 05:13 AM..
  #214  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:27 PM
Grozmok Grozmok is offline
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Without that challenge you lose the group centric sense of accomplishment that you get in EverQuest and other games (to some degree).
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  #215  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:42 PM
stormlord stormlord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grozmok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Without that challenge you lose the group centric sense of accomplishment that you get in EverQuest and other games (to some degree).
I'm thinking of Diablo 2 Hardcore mode right now. If you died it was permanent. There were various stages in the game where you'd be caught inbetween crowds of monsters and it was split second choices that could save you or kill you. It was a good challenge, but the problem is the perma-death mechanic encouraged you to stay in lower level zones to squeeze every drop of experience from it before going to the harder zones. As a consequence, it became more like a grind. Inevitably, I still died anyway too, mostly to random critical hits or misjudging the number and severity of enemies. Once or twice I died because of a lag spike. My highest level was a 47 paladin. I don't regret it, since dying and losing everything permanently is never going to be an easy thing, unless all the value of those things is removed or replaced over time.

What I'm saying here is I'm not convinced PUNISHMENT is necessary to give a game challenge. It might be necessary to hook adrenaline junkies, but challenge is another beast. A challenge is like trying to get a good score - for yourself - in golf. Punishment is like having to restart ALL holes everytime you fail to get a hole-in-one. The key to take away is golf and other games are fun not because of any punishment (unless you're hooked on adrenaline) but because of the process of learning the game and getting better with time. Few humans if any would learn to walk if they had their legs cut off if they failed their first attempt.

I think repetition and punishment can be ways to divide players and to allow for some to rise above others, but this normally applies to competitive games and only the most mediocre. Lets face it, some players are better able to tolerate repetition or punishment and thus better able to rise up and over others. This is as opposed to making better choices which is hte preferred method to divide players, so some can rise above others. I think developers of games turn to tactics like using repetition or punishment because it's cheaper to produce. Producing gameplay which urges players to make intelligent decisions requires more effort.

I think challenge increases the sense of accomplishment for both soloing and grouping. I think what you said has to do with the synergy between group members being better and more rewarding if it's a challenge.

I think a challenge is also somewhat subjective. If I was playing golf a challenge for me would be making an inferior score. Tiger Woods would cast scorn. Either way, I rise up in the ranks as I improve.

Sometimes I wonder if people take up challenges they tend to be better at. For example, I remember enjoying the hell out of nintendo games when I was growing up. My sister, on the other hand, died repeatedly and didn't enjoy them as much. Thing is, I died a lot too, but I had better reflexes than her. The difficulty curve for me was not as extreme as it was for her because of my better ability to play the game.

Why do I enjoy tactical games more than story games? Like I can enjoy the hell out of combat and figuring out ways to winning, but slogging through a story or scene is much more boring to me. Maybe this is because I don't follow a story as well or don't get attached as much emotionally to hte characters. I've always thought of myself as sensitive, but I've rarely connected with others on a deep emotional level.

So how do you make a game please to everyone if challenge is somewhat subjective and different players have different aptitudes and thus different players respond differently to the same challenge?

May I ask what your post was in response to?
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Raiding: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=109
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"Global chat is to conversation what pok books are to travel, but without sufficient population it doesn't matter."
Last edited by stormlord; 01-27-2014 at 01:24 PM..
  #216  
Old 01-27-2014, 01:34 PM
Rec Rec is offline
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First race is real fat ogres

take that eq next
  #217  
Old 01-27-2014, 02:04 PM
Sirken Sirken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceythos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hey gang,
I'm Ceythos, one of the designers on Pantheon. I just wanted to drop in and say hello and thank you everyone for the discussion and support so far!
-Ceythos
no sir, a big THANK YOU to all you guys, we're all here cheering you guys on and wishing you the very best on Pantheon. it means a lot to gamers when devs take the time to reach out to different communities to engage their fans.

<3
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  #218  
Old 01-27-2014, 02:07 PM
Grozmok Grozmok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
First race is real fat ogres

take that eq next
Huh?
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Originally Posted by Milo Cooper, Senior Artist, SOE
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  #219  
Old 01-27-2014, 02:26 PM
Derubael Derubael is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
no sir, a big THANK YOU to all you guys, we're all here cheering you guys on and wishing you the very best on Pantheon. it means a lot to gamers when devs take the time to reach out to different communities to engage their fans.

<3
this x1000

Thanks for dropping in on our little corner of the internet! I think the whole staff is kind of in awe that you are even posting here, or that we're even being mentioned in any capacity by the people who are making these great games. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It makes us all feel warm and fuzzy inside that anyone in the current MMO industry even knows we are here. Wishing you guys tons of luck and good fortunes.

Also, please implement Iksars regardless of kickstarter funding. They are the master race, after all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

~Deru
  #220  
Old 01-27-2014, 02:28 PM
Pringles Pringles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
no sir, a big THANK YOU to all you guys, we're all here cheering you guys on and wishing you the very best on Pantheon. it means a lot to gamers when devs take the time to reach out to different communities to engage their fans.

<3
Damn... I R blind. I guess thats what I get for not reading the whole thread.

Thanks for posting Ceythos!
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