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  #71  
Old 04-14-2014, 04:50 PM
BigHurb BigHurb is offline
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eat fish you grow in the tank where you grow hydroponic plants.

problem solved also the phyto (*plant) proteins are quite adequate people do not know how to eat... maybe because they think they arent animals, i blame religion
  #72  
Old 04-14-2014, 04:57 PM
Raavak Raavak is offline
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Originally Posted by Quineloe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You should let Scooby know that, vegetarian youtube bodybuilder
Yes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.
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Last edited by Raavak; 04-14-2014 at 05:11 PM..
  #73  
Old 04-14-2014, 04:57 PM
moklianne moklianne is offline
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, i blame religion
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  #74  
Old 04-14-2014, 05:20 PM
Quineloe Quineloe is offline
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Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.
you're confusing meat with steroids.

Mr Universe is all about looks, not about actual strength.
  #75  
Old 04-14-2014, 06:03 PM
Azure Azure is offline
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Originally Posted by Quineloe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
We have giant industrial complexes housing thousands of pigs and tens of thousands of chicken in tiny compartments who never see the sun in their life and get killed by automated machines with the female sows being shackled against the wall for their entire life so they don't crush their piglets in what some biologists believe is actually their instinct of mercy killing.

And the food for these complexes comes from south America, Paraguay and Brasil. Small farmers live there, then a corporation comes along and buys the land. The people who worked it don't know where to go, so they stay. Next step a death squad is sent out that murders someone, usually a small farmer unionist. Then a so called "It's done"- plane flies over, spraying herbicides and killing everything. Now the people have to flee, so the large equipment can be brought in to move all the poisoned land aside and on the fertile soil a dozen feet below the tainted one vast field as far as the eye can see are planted.

But hey, I guess some redneck having 900 cattle free range grazing is ruining the environment and he needs to be stopped.
Your conflating cowboy cattle grazing with starving Africans and industrialized food production and GMO liscencing.

The question is, is this family really entitled to fee free use of the land due to the law? Does does the states law override their original ownership? What is the history? Who really owns the land?

Meat has it's merits. But so do other sources of nutrition. People eat too many big macs. Chinese arent going to put in big farms with the solar power. People can do what they want with it. I would grow spirulina and chlorella with some fishies.

This isn't about a big bad government. It's about an uncompromising family who has had since 1993 to re-arrange their business.

Whole damn thing reminds me Skyrim and it's Jarls and Ulfric. Especially with the crazy mormon ties to the good o'le boy network.
Last edited by Azure; 04-14-2014 at 06:34 PM..
  #76  
Old 04-14-2014, 06:42 PM
Quineloe Quineloe is offline
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I merely responded to your claim about meat being bad in general. You made a blanket statement, it's ok to backpeddle on it now.

Also, the meat from that cattle is NOT what you'll find on a Big Mac. Those are made from very poor quality meat from the industrialized processed food industry, contrary to what McDonalds keeps claiming.

The other 52 families in the county shut down their business. No one rearranged it, because the BLM dictates terms that can't be met while not starving. They're not asking for fee free use of the land, they just don't want to pay millions of dollars to a distant bureau that is actually trying to shut them down. That is not exactly unsurprising.
  #77  
Old 04-15-2014, 12:15 AM
Nuggie Nuggie is offline
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The perspective of a Nevadan for the last 25 years:

There are several points I would like to address. First and foremost is most public land in Nevada is managed by the BLM. State agencies have zero say over what happens on these lands. Most rural Nevadans are very pissed about this. This situation is one of many disputes between the public and the BLM. Look up the jarbridge shovel brigade incident. Or look at how the BLM is closing trails on public lands with zero regard to how they effect public uses of these lands.

Someone hinted about this earlier: those cattle grazing are removing fuel for wild fires. Wild fires in Nevada put out more pollution than humans. This problem has been getting worse the last 15 years as the BLM has been shutting cattle ranchers out of these lands. Through outright refusal of permits, raising permit rates to unaffordable levels, etc. These ranchers are doing a public service.

I don't know the Bundy's, but their way of life is a dieing breed. They are fighting for survival. Animals fighting for survival can get vicious. Anyone that feels they are backed into a corner is going to get desperate and violent

About the solar stuff. I am a big fan in where solar will take us. But the technology isn't there yet. The stuff is too expensive to produce atm, it doesn't last long enough, current power distribution systems are horribly inefficient making putting solar farms out in the middle of nowhere a less favorable place for them, the more they heat up from the sun the less they produce. Also, China subsidizing their solar businesses, illegally according to trade international trade treaties is making American solar firms unable to compete. I haven't checked in a few years but the Chinese were producing panels at half the cost Americans were partially because of the subsidies. Of course the cost of labor plays into it. When the technology for solar makes it a better option I'm all for putting an array on top of every home in America.

About the alternative to grass fed beef. This is something my wife pushes, it's possible that because cattle didn't evolve eating corn or other non grass feeds that it has unintended effects on their meet. Which translates into unintended consequences up the food chain, us. Science hasn't fully proven this yet however. But it's possible. Personally I don't care. Beef tastes good either way. So does fish. I don't know too much about which proteins are better.

As a few aside notes: bamzal, you're approach on this topic was very one sided which opened your argument up for the trolls. To the trolls, this isn't RnF. You deserve suspensions for some of your remarks.

Edit- I forgot to add the new director of the BLM is from rural Nevada. I believe he got the job a day or two after the BLM sent in the rangers to this area. I'd think he is to credit for the quick pull out of personnel.
Last edited by Nuggie; 04-15-2014 at 02:12 AM..
  #78  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:37 AM
Bamz4l Bamz4l is offline
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http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/15...ked-out-office

nice discussion with Bundy's. Lets disarm those park rangers carrying AR's!
Quote:
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: This is a "FOX News Alert." The federal government has caved to public pressure in the battle against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy over cattle grazing rights. Now, in just a moment, Cliven, his two sons will join us for their first exclusive interview since the siege ended.

But first, the government surrendered this weekend after tensions escalated in the week-long standoff between Bundy family, supporters, and of course, federal agents. Now, the Bureau of Land Management released the 400 cattle that it seized from Bundy and removed its heavily-armed agents from the ranch.

Now, our producers were on the scene all weekend long as these very tense and sometimes confusing events were unfolding. Now, let's take you through this weekend with this exclusive "Hannity" video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not give up our land! The government needs to go away!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is taking our freedom, and we have to stand up and fight for it. I think that's what these good people are doing here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My family and the community has run these hills and enjoyed these hills for generations. Never once in the history of this nation have those mountains ever been restricted from us. And yet this week, they were.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning. Cliven, my purpose out here this morning is to continue, from my standpoint, to keep a very emotional issue safe. The BLM is going to cease this operation...

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and they will be removing their assets here in Clark County.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds to me like negotiation is going on. We're not ready to negotiate, are we?

(NO!)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what we the people are asking this morning. Disarm the Park Service.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your county bulldozers and loaders and tear (ph) down interest (ph) places. (INAUDIBLE) until that time, we're going to stand and be ready to fight!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they're going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to come down here and at least let you know, hey, we're working on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as the sheriff was here, things got calm, and I feel a lot better. They are -- by the demands of the people, they will have the cattle to us.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have agreed to pull out. They're going to start loading (INAUDIBLE) immediately. (INAUDIBLE) no shots fired (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so emotional, I don't know if I can even talk at this point! We're so happy. I mean, this is what we wanted. It was one man standing, but now he has thousands on his side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so happy! I can open the gates! I can open the gates and let our babies out, our calves! They get to go back home! They get to go home to the river! They get to go (INAUDIBLE) to the ranch down the road! We're so excited!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the moms will be looking for...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The babies...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it's the most wonderful day in all the world!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: And tonight, Senator Harry Reid has responded, saying that, in fact, it is not over.

Back with us tonight, Nevadan rancher Cliven Bundy. We're also joined by his two sons, Ammon and Ryan. Guys, welcome back. Thanks for being here.

AMMON BUNDY, SON: Thank you.

RYAN BUNDY, SON: Thank you, Sean.

CLIVEN BUNDY: Thank you, Sean.

HANNITY: Cliven, let me -- first of all, on Friday, I was very, very concerned that this would end ugly. We heard the sheriff saying that the BLM, Bureau of Land Management, has ceased operations. You've gotten your cows back. Is that correct?

CLIVEN BUNDY: You know, I listened to that four minutes, and my hands are sweating and my tears are close to my eyes right now, Sean! But yes, my cows are back. Yes, my cows are back.

HANNITY: Well, let me ask you, because Harry Reid just spoke earlier tonight and he said that, well, it's not over. He said, quote, "We can't have American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over."

What is your response to Harry Reid?

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't have a response for Harry Reid, but I have a response for every sheriff across the United States, every county sheriff across the United States. Disarm the federal bureaucrats. Take the federal United States bureaucrats' guns away. That's my message today.

HANNITY: You said that to the sheriff, Cliven. You said to disarm the Park Service, meaning the Bureau of Land Management. I mean, there were, what, 200 people surrounding your ranch and there were snipers and -- I mean, it was really a precarious situation there all weekend up until this got resolved, right?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Yes. And if the county sheriff had have taken away the weapons from the BLM, those pickets (ph) would not have to march before these guns. And that was -- that's a terrible thing to put American people in that situation, and -- but they did.

And we didn't have a county sheriff. We didn't have a state government. And we the people marched, and the BLM backed down. Now, they backed down -- let me tell you how they backed down. They backed down. They run. They got on the freeway and went to Mesquite and grabbed their stuff and moved out of the state. Now, the state -- towards the state of Utah. Utah County sheriff's finished this job that Gillespie didn't do, take the guns away from these federal bureaucrats.

HANNITY: Is your contention that this is state land and that they have no authority or business being there?

CLIVEN BUNDY: They have no authority.

HANNITY: All right, let me ask you about -- what happened to the county commissioner? You had a county commissioner in Clark County that literally called, after a commissioner in Utah said that ranchers were going to go out there in support and solidarity of you -- he called them inbreds and that they better hope they -- he hopes they have made their funeral plans. Whatever happened to him?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, you know, we had a mandate for the county commissioners. We said, Tear down those toll (ph) stations in these parts. We've already paid for these parts. Don't be charging us again. And we gave the county commissioners the charge to tear them down with your bulldozers.

HANNITY: Yes. Ammon, let me ask you...

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't know that the...

HANNITY: Go ahead, sir. Finish your point.

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, I haven't heard from the county commissioners, and the media hasn't reported back to me, so I don't know whether they got tore down or not.

HANNITY: Yes. Ammon, you're one of the people that actually got hurt in all of this in this confrontation, and we saw the dogs and we saw the tasers being fired and we saw women on the ground. You got hit with a taser, what, three times, Ammon?

AMMON BUNDY: Yes, three times.

HANNITY: Yes. How many other people were hurt in this?

AMMON BUNDY: Well, there was a few other casualties. But Sean, I'd do it again. And after it was all over, I couldn't have felt better.

HANNITY: What is your response to Harry Reid saying tonight that this is not over? It seems to me like he's making a threat that they're going to come for your dad.

AMMON BUNDY: Well, if he doesn't have enough moral fiber in his bones at all to see what happened, that we the people got together and made something right, then I don't think there's any hope for him and he needs to be kicked out of office, even if he is the Senate majority leader. It doesn't matter.

HANNITY: What is your position, Ryan?

RYAN BUNDY: Well, I think that's pretty easy. I think we the people have spoken, haven't we? (INAUDIBLE) one man's word. Doesn't matter what position he has. But people have spoken and said this is no longer going to take place. So we don't fear Harry Reid. The people are here to say we will have our freedom, and that's what's going to happen.

HANNITY: Yes. See, I think the...

RYAN BUNDY: The genie's out of the bottle. It's going to happen.

HANNITY: There's no doubt about it. From my perspective, as somebody that follows politics very, very closely, I think that they -- I think the politicians were watching this, Democrats in particular, and that they knew if something bad happened here, and they were the ones ratcheting this up - - I mean, we have rapist and murderers and bank robbers and pedophiles out there, and they've 200 agents, you know, surrounding your ranch because your cows are eating grass on land that they don't even want or need and that you're arguing isn't even theirs.

So they realized, I think, at some point, politically, that this was going to backfire on them. So I think this was done for political reasons. Cliven, do you see that?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, it's definitely done for political reasons. They wanted to show the American people in the world that they had unlimited power and they -- you know, they had taken over state sovereignty, our Nevada laws, our public lands.

HANNITY: All right...

CLIVEN BUNDY: You know, listen...

HANNITY: Yes?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Listen, do you think they really have taken it over? I don't think so. They might have took over our Clark County sheriff, but they never took over we the people, the sovereign people of this nation. We're standing and we're going to stand until we take the guns away from those bureaucracies, and then we'll start making America great one more time.

HANNITY: Did you lose many cows? I understand that some of your cows died.

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't know how many, but some did die. We got about 27 calves that are without mothers, and they're little baby calves and we've been -- as ranchers, we've been trying to nurse those calves along for three days now, hoping to get -- keep them alive and hoping we can pair them back up with their mother.
  #79  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:48 AM
Bamz4l Bamz4l is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The perspective of a Nevadan for the last 25 years:

There are several points I would like to address. First and foremost is most public land in Nevada is managed by the BLM. State agencies have zero say over what happens on these lands. Most rural Nevadans are very pissed about this. This situation is one of many disputes between the public and the BLM. Look up the jarbridge shovel brigade incident. Or look at how the BLM is closing trails on public lands with zero regard to how they effect public uses of these lands.

Someone hinted about this earlier: those cattle grazing are removing fuel for wild fires. Wild fires in Nevada put out more pollution than humans. This problem has been getting worse the last 15 years as the BLM has been shutting cattle ranchers out of these lands. Through outright refusal of permits, raising permit rates to unaffordable levels, etc. These ranchers are doing a public service.

I don't know the Bundy's, but their way of life is a dieing breed. They are fighting for survival. Animals fighting for survival can get vicious. Anyone that feels they are backed into a corner is going to get desperate and violent

About the solar stuff. I am a big fan in where solar will take us. But the technology isn't there yet. The stuff is too expensive to produce atm, it doesn't last long enough, current power distribution systems are horribly inefficient making putting solar farms out in the middle of nowhere a less favorable place for them, the more they heat up from the sun the less they produce. Also, China subsidizing their solar businesses, illegally according to trade international trade treaties is making American solar firms unable to compete. I haven't checked in a few years but the Chinese were producing panels at half the cost Americans were partially because of the subsidies. Of course the cost of labor plays into it. When the technology for solar makes it a better option I'm all for putting an array on top of every home in America.

About the alternative to grass fed beef. This is something my wife pushes, it's possible that because cattle didn't evolve eating corn or other non grass feeds that it has unintended effects on their meet. Which translates into unintended consequences up the food chain, us. Science hasn't fully proven this yet however. But it's possible. Personally I don't care. Beef tastes good either way. So does fish. I don't know too much about which proteins are better.

As a few aside notes: bamzal, you're approach on this topic was very one sided which opened your argument up for the trolls. To the trolls, this isn't RnF. You deserve suspensions for some of your remarks.

Edit- I forgot to add the new director of the BLM is from rural Nevada. I believe he got the job a day or two after the BLM sent in the rangers to this area. I'd think he is to credit for the quick pull out of personnel.

This is P99 forums, no getting around the trolls. I like to discuss these types of issues - ones that mainstreams are not allowed to properly report on. And it's the least I can do to be pro-active. I'd rather have been down on the ranch this weekend but i'm too far away. The worst part to me is the ignorance in peoples replies, and realizing how little people would stand up for their own rights.
Last edited by Bamz4l; 04-15-2014 at 11:52 AM..
  #80  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:56 AM
Azure Azure is offline
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IDK ya'll can call me a troll but I found this thread insightful. Even if I played devils advocate. I don't think the government should be killing these ranchers over this.

TBH this is probably a good incident to point out how the 1st amendment is still working as intended. Even if your pro government on this issue. In fact it allowed people to stand up effectively to their government and no one got slaughtered (yet).
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