NEW Emulator Server

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd like to see Luclin/PoP without the Nexus free ports, PoP Stones, Luclin priests, and Bazaar. Keep the grouping and raiding content, all that good stuff, just not the things that tend to isolate players from one another. I never had a problem with much of the content itself, merely the aspects of the game that helped to deteriorate the player base's interdependence.

My feeling exactly.

[Kayso]

I don't get the problem with the PoK books. They isolate players from one another?

/auction WTB Port to DL
/invite Druid_01
hand druid 50p
port
/g Thanks
/disband

Wow! What a meaningful and lasting relationship I've made. My game experience is so much richer for having a good friend like Druid_01. What a marvelous adventure! Good times. Good times.

Not a shot at Uteunayr, BTW. A lot of people say the same exact thing.

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Erasong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

with the amount of interest i always see im shocked there isnt a legit classic to pop progression emu with a ruleset similar to p99.

One of the biggest problems is that they claim the original zone source is gone. So, Freeport, PoM, Nek, and a host of other zones wouldn't be like they are on p99.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Kayso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't get the problem with the PoK books. They isolate players from one another?

/auction WTB Port to DL
/invite Druid_01
hand druid 50p
port
/g Thanks
/disband

Wow! What a meaningful and lasting relationship I've made. My game experience is so much richer for having a good friend like Druid_01. What a marvelous adventure! Good times. Good times.

Not a shot at Uteunayr, BTW. A lot of people say the same exact thing.

I keep trying to write a response, but I swear it gets too wordy even for me. Let me try and break it down even further. Also, just because I write something lengthy here, doesn't mean I felt I was being attacked. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just trying to explain the logic.

It matters on 2 big fronts: Chance encounters, and reputation.

1) It doesn't matter if you make a meaningful and lasting relationship with the person. The mere act of having a social exchange has positive mental benefits to human beings due to the way our brains evolved, as we are a social species.

Chance meetings are known to have a statistically significant increase to feelings of social trust and political efficacy. Similarly, such encounters will still appeal to the psyche of the player, as this game is inherently a social one.

2) Reputation matters. If you're a total dick to people, consistently, you're going to find yourself getting less porters wanting to help you, less necros wanting to summon your corpse, less clerics wanting to rez you, and so on. So, instead of being a complete asshat to anyone you meet (as is the case in many MMOs today), people approach situations more reasonably.

When they introduced PoK books, and Luclin portals, and Priests of Luclin, what happened was a reduction into how much people had to care about their reputation. Most games today don't make players need other players, and so the player is free to be a dick to anyone else they meet.

Now, I often hear that people say "but then you're just forcing people to be nice!" Well, that may be true. That's how life tends to work. We are connected, socially, to other people in complex webs of interdependence, and so we are not always totally free to act however we want. If we are free to act however we want, we get League of Legends like behavior. What this does is creates a behavioral spiral, as someone who would be decent is dragged into the shit storm that is un-restrained shitty behavior.

However, if the shitty behavior comes with reputation cost, the average person (who I believe is more than fine being a reasonable player) is not dragged down, and you can get a very positive community, like Classic EQ had.

EverQuest had a lot of ways early on to push for reputation costs. You couldn't just pay $10 and change your name, like you can on WoW and most other games today. Further, to replace a level 60 toon was a major endeavor. So, your name counted.

Additionally, it took time to get places. So porting was necessary if you were ever in a rush, so you wanted to be on good terms with some druids, and preferably not be a douche to them.

Trading was face to face, so if you were that asshole, you weren't going to get many traders. This was curbed significantly by trader alts, but they weren't as prominent on live as they were here (although it did occur).

Corpse summons, rezzes... All of these things are shortcuts to what is a very long and arduous game. If you want to get anywhere fast, you needed to be relatively decent to others.

Even grouping emphasizes the need to have a good reputation. You get known as a lazy asshat, guess who's not getting invited to the group next time? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Additionally, servers were made up of ~2000 players at peak hours? And there wasn't as much class clustering, it was far more diffuse. So you have approximately 154 of any class online at a time. Across 60 levels? And then of them, how many are /a or /r because they don't want to port or anything like that?

It created hardships at times, because some days, there simply wouldn't be porters around, or rezzers around. But that's the rough EQ game we all know and love. When they made these stones and things, they took away how much a player relies upon others, they made the game a bit easier and more convenient, but it ultimately meant players were not held accountable to the social mechanisms that the game used to have.

[Halius]

^^^

To add to Uteunayr's point the PoK books also took away a key ability for most Druids and Wizards to make money. I mean a lot of people make druid alts just so they can port others around, make some cash, and help friends. Add in the PoK books and you get much less need for a druid/wizard to port and ultimately you'll see less and less of these classes online. Granted they get new healing spells post-60 making them more effective priests but you take away one of their key roles which is porting.

Edit: I will also say that I did enjoy the PoP expansion and loved the Plane of Disease, Plane of Innovation, and other numerous zones it added on my warrior, just saying that it did take away a key role for porters.

[Uteunayr]

Which is why I'd like to see the content, the AAs, and all that jank... Just without the things that were put in for lazy convenience that hurts that interdependence.

[Kayso]

Originally Posted by Halius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^^

To add to Uteunayr's point the PoK books also took away a key ability for most Druids and Wizards to make money. I mean a lot of people make druid alts just so they can port others around, make some cash, and help friends. Add in the PoK books and you get much less need for a druid/wizard to port and ultimately you'll see less and less of these classes online. Granted they get new healing spells post-60 making them more effective priests but you take away one of their key roles which is porting.

Edit: I will also say that I did enjoy the PoP expansion and loved the Plane of Disease, Plane of Innovation, and other numerous zones it added on my warrior, just saying that it did take away a key role for porters.

I couldn't disagree more on the Druid/Wiz money issue.

Other than Jboots for a Wizzie, there's very little gear that makes a meaningful difference for druids or wizzies pre-45. By the time you have all the ports at 39, you can earn more leveling than you can porting.

I actually have a druid in the 50s on this server. If you start NK guards at 34, move to BB dorfs at 42, and go to Seafuries from 49+, you'll make more money leveling than you would have if you had spent the same time porting and were still 34.

But hey, we agree on PoP being fun.

[Kayso]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is why I'd like to see the content, the AAs, and all that jank... Just without the things that were put in for lazy convenience that hurts that interdependence.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying; specifically on interdependence making EQ better than games like WoW. I'm just not sure PoK books is where I'd draw that line.

[Halius]

Originally Posted by Kayso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I couldn't disagree more on the Druid/Wiz money issue.

Other than Jboots for a Wizzie, there's very little gear that makes a meaningful difference for druids or wizzies pre-45. By the time you have all the ports at 39, you can earn more leveling than you can porting.

I actually have a druid in the 50s on this server. If you start NK guards at 34, move to BB dorfs at 42, and go to Seafuries from 49+, you'll make more money leveling than you would have if you had spent the same time porting and were still 34.

But hey, we agree on PoP being fun.

I'm not saying that porting is the fastest and best way for them to make money, I know druids can solo well at higher levels, especially in outdoor zones. I'm just saying you are taking away one of the fundamental things that made druids/wizards a necessity in early EQ. On top of that need from most players, you can also make money, which is why a lot of people make druids and stop leveling them when they hit 40 or so. They just use them to help friends get around and make some extra cash.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Kayso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying; specifically on interdependence making EQ better than games like WoW. I'm just not sure PoK books is where I'd draw that line.

What else would you add? I like the amount of interdependence that classic offered. I think it was just the right amount to create a good community, without being too hard on players. What else did they add that you think took away from it?