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Old 01-02-2014, 08:55 PM
Frieza_Prexus Frieza_Prexus is offline
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Default Ignoring the Average Joe: Why most raid plans do nothing for those who need it most

I am hesitant to make a new post given how frequently people have been vomiting on their keyboards and pressing Enter, but I see a large problem looming, and I don't think it has been satisfactorily addressed.

The Issue


Many of the non "Tier 1" guilds do not kill raid mobs, not because they can't compete, but because they do not have the desire or ability to compete at certain times. For example, smaller guilds are certainly capable of killing Trakanon, but they are not capable or desirous of killing him at 9 AM on a Tuesday morning. These people have demanding jobs, families, and other responsibilities that hinder their ability to respond to batphones on short notice. Many of the current ideas floating around do nothing to address the issue of spawn times, and they often set a time limit on how long the mob can be spawned before it defaults to FFA. These solutions do little to address this issue.

One of the largest outcries from the community is that the current setup prevents the casual from ever seeing, much less participating in, the end game. No one can reasonably suggest that casuals should have just as much content as the hardcore, but neither can anyone suggest that the casual should never be allowed to even glimpse the endgame. The goal should be to enable both groups in a fair manner that does not unduly impact the other.

Solving the problem: Hardcores gonna hardcore; casuals gonna casual

I see a fundamental error in most plans because they attempt to create a single sandbox where both populations are to play. This is, in my view, an incorrect approach. The rift is so drastic that it cannot be satisfactorily bridged. There must be two separate schemes. This is why I personally favor hands off periods with baglimits, and similar plans that completely segregate the different populations.

The ideal situation would be a pre-announced repop every ~2 weeks wherein no guild make take more than 2 targets, and no guild may attack the repop if it claimed more than X# of targets since the last repop. The repop time can vary to accommodate time zones, but the general thrust is that it is reasonably predictable so that players may plan around them. Players do not respond to 4 AM batphones for a variety of reasons, but a 7:00 PM Tuesday Night or an 11:00 AM Saturday morning repop would certainly make the average player's personal calendar. If casuals are to have meaningful participation, they must 1) be able to plan their schedule in advance of the raid, and 2) be protected from predatory hardcores.

NOTE: I understand that the staff has said that repops are not on the table, but we've also been told that they'd never force negotiations on the players. These are interesting times, and nothing is impossible. If we appeal logically and diplomatically it may enable otherwise impossible solutions.

Recap: Why is this a problem and what does this solve? Explain Like I'm 5


Many smaller guilds do not compete because time and commitment restrictions keep them from logging in when the mobs spawn. Many of the current proposals do nothing to solve or address this issue. By segregating raid targets into completely separate groups between the casual and the hardcore you allow the casual to make time to raid with a promise of absolutely zero interference from the hardcore crowd, and you allow the hardcore to continue their activities without harming the casual.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2014, 08:59 PM
Razdeline Razdeline is offline
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Casuals have a time limit on mobs when they are up, I.E. don't kill in the time needed and anyone is game.

Their casualness will further improve hardcore game-play.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:01 PM
Rhambuk Rhambuk is offline
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Too many suggestions.

I can't lie though, It's nice to see so many people that care about the server.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:03 PM
Pint Pint is offline
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tldr these other guilds are not going to be happy until you guarantee them mobs they dont deserve in quantities that they dont deserve with lockouts and no time limits that make encounters in anyway detrimental to them. they want handouts, and they are apparently about to get them.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:05 PM
Frieza_Prexus Frieza_Prexus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
tldr these other guilds are not going to be happy until you guarantee them mobs they dont deserve in quantities that they dont deserve with lockouts and no time limits that make encounters in anyway detrimental to them. they want handouts, and they are apparently about to get them.
This is not about who does or does not deserve mobs, nor is it about handouts.

This is about ensuring that any solution addresses one of the main reasons many do not raid: Mob spawn at the wrong times and the casuals have NO protection against hardcores. This lack prevents them from raiding at all, when they should at least be able to raid a little.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:07 PM
Rhambuk Rhambuk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
tldr these other guilds are not going to be happy until you guarantee them mobs they dont deserve in quantities that they dont deserve with lockouts and no time limits that make encounters in anyway detrimental to them. they want handouts, and they are apparently about to get them.
Don't deserve?

This whole entitlement thing comes from putting in insane hours because of variance which isn't classic and...the hell with it im too tired of reading you hardcore folks who think casual guilds want shit handed to them. Who the hell WANTS to track for endless hours not knowing if it will pay off?

that's not everquest its not classic. if you want to feel entitled to a mob because you sat in a spot for 10 hours go make a server called projectpoopsock where the mobs spawn once a month.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:09 PM
Pint Pint is offline
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im not entitled to shit, im just tired of reading post after post of people bitching that the free handouts they are getting are not enough.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:10 PM
radditsu radditsu is offline
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I am tired of the lot of you being dum.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Frieza_Prexus Frieza_Prexus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
im not entitled to shit, im just tired of reading post after post of people bitching that the free handouts they are getting are not enough.
This is not the thread for that. Please take it elsewhere.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Pint Pint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is not about who does or does not deserve mobs, nor is it about handouts.

This is about ensuring that any solution addresses one of the main reasons many do not raid: Mob spawn at the wrong times and the casuals have NO protection against hardcores. This lack prevents them from raiding at all, when they should at least be able to raid a little.
every proposal ive read has made concessions to give casual guilds more targets and a more balanced raid scene, and every one of them has been shit on unless it somehow involves guaranteed kills/attempts which is outrageous.
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