Which is the more active class, Enchanter or Bard / How to play them?

[BarkingSpider]

Was just wondering what the more active class is and what types of activity exactly do they have?

I know Bards typically twist songs in groups, but that seems kind of similar to just modern day MMOs, right? 11 22 33 44 etc? What other things keeps a bard active and constantly doing in groups, or is that the majority of it, twisting buff songs?

For Enchanters I know you have haste / clarity buffs, but that's like every 30mins, nothing compared to shaman buffing. Once you have a pet charmed you pretty much just sit and chill sending it to attack whatever mobs the puller brings, right? Then root / mez any additional adds that come.

Is this for the most part how each class is played while grouping? Is there anything I am missing?

[mcoy]

There are several good videos on twitch or youtube of people playing the classes. You've described about 10% of a bard's, and maybe 20% of an enchanter's abilities. It all boils down to how you want to play your class.

This guy has a few interesting ones (CipherDec):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLz...v5Xk_pC4MhmGNg

Also Tecmos has some great chanter videos, but it's mostly solo:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkZ...YEE9Y-_FTW4HZg

-Mcoy

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mcoy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are several good videos on twitch or youtube of people playing the classes. You've described about 10% of a bard's, and maybe 20% of an enchanter's abilities. It all boils down to how you want to play your class.

This guy has a few interesting ones (CipherDec):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLz...v5Xk_pC4MhmGNg

Also Tecmos has some great chanter videos, but it's mostly solo:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkZ...YEE9Y-_FTW4HZg

-Mcoy

I do have a group video in HS west that is a pretty good example of how busy a chanter can be in a group. I was pulling, CCing, keeping a fully buffed pet charmed, etc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlkD4APxuUY

With cleric and shaman support, a chanter really can just go buck wild outside of the hardest Velious content. Tons of hp, extra mr debuff on pet (charms outlast tash like 1/3 of the time when you've got tash, malo, -mr gear and are charming a low blue), no need to slow stuff (and so a lot of the time you won't even need to be tashing stuff). When your only necessary responsibilities become keeping buffs up, sicing your charm on stuff, and CC... it's slow. But you make an amazing puller in this kind of a situation, since you basically combine the puller and CC roles into one. You feed mobs to your group, timed well, spaced out for easy debuffing and killing, etc etc. Doubling up on TOT and WM when possible (though really WM is superfluous if you have potg or a bard in group) lets you be puller+cc, DPS, buffer and still have mana to waste on random crap like nukes or cripple or yolo gravity fluxes.

[Dreenk317]

Bards are extremely active in a group. Either twisting mana for casters and healers. Or twisting resists/ds/haste/buffs for the group. Or mezzlocking adds as they come to camp. Or often you will be the best puller for the job with your ability to lull and charm and mez. A good bard can always be doing something more for the group. A lazy bard gives other bards bad names. That being said. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just pump mana.

[Rygar]

Keep in mind on an enchanter your charm is random duration (I think only Dictate is fixed, some vets can correct me). So it is hardly charm and kick back and relax. I have had charm break during the first tick, have had it last really long (never maxed it yet as I been soloing, so been charm breaking for good exp gains).

Its pretty stressful to be honest, when you have a charmed pet you shouldn't step away from the keyboard for even 5 seconds, you won't have the HP to eat a lot of hits, especially if you are hasting a pet.

I have to admit, since playing enchanter I realized how easy mode my Monk has been. Charming is pretty stressful, I haven't really grouped but I can see crowd control being stressful, especially when managing a pet. I don't endorse buff timers (not classic) but I know there are hacks for it.

I learned that having only 8 spell slots is torture on an enchanter as well, I'm constantly swapping spells in and out, get a charm break during that swap and its more stressful.

I have a lot more respect for enchanters now, the Noman videos from Tecmos helped me get the hang of things. But seeing the videos makes it seem soooo easy, I was a fumbling mess when I started, died a ton.

[Jmcwrestling]

I can't speak much for bard but I main my enchanter so maybe I can give some insight.

Playing an enchanter is all about micro management imo.
You are constantly dealing with random situations and applying the correct tool to the appropriate problem.
Charming , buffing , mezzing , slows , all of this stuff seems easy and it can be, but every enchanter can tell you that they have the method to their madness hard coded into their brain. Obviously if you're in a full group , monk pulling and charming a green / low blue mob, then yes it's pretty chill but being able to micromanage a pets aggro, whilst effectively controlling your battlefield , and keeping buffs up and juggling a grenade while you do all that is intense at times.

The key to enchanting is efficiency. You need to utilize your UI, learn to quickly swap spells on a seconds notice (hell, I swap spells between a mobs attack round occasionally if it's called for).

And to add a dimension to the whole thing, you have to make a battle plan in about 4 seconds once you realize shit hits the fan.

Bad enchanting is very easy, but good enchanting makes you a God among mortals in group and solo content.

As far as being an active class, it all depends on how you play you're toon. Every class can be active if played to their potentional. I believe it's what makes the difference between good and bad players.

[mcoy]

Originally Posted by Jmcwrestling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak much for bard but I main my enchanter so maybe I can give some insight.

... and juggling a grenade while you do all that...

Perhaps the best description I've ever heard.

-Mcoy

[BarkingSpider]

So there is a lot of spell swapping to gems as an Enchanter? Is it anything compared to shaman spell swapping?

Also, for enchanters, how much of a difference does Charisma make when charming / pets breaking early? If I have only 100 or so Cha, will by pets break constantly? Or if I do a green / blue mob, then it should last a decent amount of time regardless?

[skarlorn]

Tons of spell swapping for an enchanter, especially if you don't have a goblin ghaz ring. You dont' "sit back and chill" when you have a pet, because that's a one way trip to Death-Town. If you are in a group, your lowest possible effort is throwing out Cs and Hastes. SOmetimes you'll have to mez, so it's important you are at least watching on a second screen. But if you are a good group member, you'll have a charmed pet which will be a constant drain on your mana/putting your life in danger, so you'll need to be very active.

Bards are similar in a group because you could be a real shitter an djust play 1 song, or you could twist a couple of songs and autoattack. But the best bards are fucking insane, they are singing a song while they play another on the flute and then also soloing led zeppelin stairway to heaven while they dive into the entrance of mistmoore castle and come out with a train of 20 vampire assassins who they are AE snaring and then kiting around in a circle on the CE plateau, all while still feeding mana to their hungry casters, then when they see the cleric mob CHing itsefl they'll hit it with a quick mezz to interrupt the cast, and then they'll charm a mob out of the pack and use it to attack another mob in the pack and they're still running in circles kiting 4 other zombie vampire lords while playing the flute and the fiddle and singing bohemian rhapsody but OH SHIT the tank has bad posiitioning and the rogues are pushing that gargoyle over the ledge and they're gonna fall off so you use your mezz pushback effec to save the day and you're an incredible god running in circles kiting 2 mobs left your wrist burns with the flame of carpal tunnel but the exp flows in so fast you've got a huge erection and you whip it out and start tapping keys with it to keep up the song twisting and then you dive back into mistmoore castle to get more bad guys


so i would say bard has a propensity for more activity

[Swish]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tons of spell swapping for an enchanter, especially if you don't have a goblin ghaz ring. ...

Roll dark elf and remove the need to own one, my biggest mistake on red and I made one on blue to correct it <3 Sure it's not 100% effective but it works enough of the time that I'm happy to play the lottery with it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally I find a bard is more active than an enchanter, I think the two classes are the only ones I have on both servers (and cleric). Bards don't just have to do what the enchanter is doing in terms of mezzing, slowing, charming, etc... but they have to keep pace with twisting songs during combat, pull where necessary, and because of charm's short duration find ways of convincing the group which NPC is the pet at a given moment (sit works as well as them not being able to do damage to it on blue server, but RIP the unclassic /pet feign, was a great indicator).

Bards are more active and harder than enchanters, there I said it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]