Root resist?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by tanknspank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's two separate issues here. One is the rate of root breaking (on tick, from damage, whatever). That did need some nerf. Is it like classic now? I can't speak to that as I haven't root-rotted much.

The second issue is the calculation of resists in general. I'm not sure if that needed a boost, but the boost it received it's more severe than it was on live.

i've said before that i think the new formula needs some tweaking, especially in the area of players being able to resist green mobs casting on them.

however, i think casters here have been spoiled for way too long. i had never gotten a resist on a charm spell (on my bard, chanter, or necro) unless the mob was out of level range of spell until the last patch...i don't mean it was rare, i mean it never happened. casters here have reaped the benefits on non-classic resists in their favor for YEARS. so, while i think tweaking is needed its hard for me to feel too badly right now after personally taking advantage of this for so long. i'm more than due a few resists---even resist deaths.

as for the hard-wired 5% thing, i'm not sure if its correct. i will say though, that I played a wizard in live during classic as my main. i can recall getting green mob resists---even on lvl 1 mobs when i was casting at max level. like many folks, the first thing i did after getting ice comet was gate to gfay and blow random junk up...and i did get a resist or two while playing around that day. i don't know if it was a hard-wired 1%, 5%, or .01% chance...but it did happen. graffe's (the classic wizard forum) had threads regarding resists. i doubt it was a hard wired 5% chance to fail because something like that would have been extremely easy to parse out...and i don't recall seeing any reliable posts about it. nonetheless, i think the pnp role playing game analogy holds true---and was built into EQ---there should always be a chance of success or failure on any die role, regardless of level or other formula. i just don't think it was exactly 5%, and my intuition is that at the extremes of the curve (max lvl char vs lvl 1 mob) it was considerably less.

has anyone here actually tested out the 5% hypothesis on p99 since the last patch? it would be very easy to confirm or refute.

in any case, in the long run, i think this patch is good. it moves the game-play forward in the right direction (more like it was in classic) despite needing some tweaking. like other major patches (sit aggro, removing spell lists, etc.) players will eventually see its merits. by the way casters...keep enjoying other non-classic benefits like ducking out of spells, no spell book, etc...casters in classic EQ are so over powered compared to straight melee. charm and root breaks? dd resists? its part of the reason why some folks preferred to play the less explosive but more consistently reliable melee classes during classic era.

[August]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IDK, but it sure seems odd a tash'd level 1 mob could possibly resist a level 58's root, but that happened to me yesterday.

I think there's definitely a 'base chance' to resist that all mobs qualify for, just like in DnD.

The real question is what percentage it's set to.

[brecon]

There have been a series of recent changes that have really changed game dynamics.

Think about giants. They are now (1) unstunnable and unmezzable, (2) constantly resist or break high level roots, and (3) constantly resist enchanter and bard charm (i had a DB giant resist 6 charms in a row yesterday, prior to patch resists and charm breaks on 18 second charm were occasional but infrequent). CC is next to impossible now on these mobs.

I can't say whether this is classic or not, but it's certainly detrimental to the style of gameplay that has been on this server. Enchanters were prized before because they are the best CC, but in a pinch, you could root CC, Necs and Bards could ghetto CC, and you could charm CC giants. Now, none of these are consistent.

[tanknspank]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i had never gotten a resist on a charm spell (on my bard, chanter, or necro) unless the mob was out of level range of spell until the last patch...i don't mean it was rare, i mean it never happened.

I've had resists on appropriate level charm before the patch (Charm Animal vs teen-level blues/lt blues) but fewer than I would have expected in classic. So that did need some boost. It feels however the resist boost was too much across the board. Whereas I think the nerf to charm/root/etc should have been less so on resist and more on the chance to break.

One reason I didn't use charm too much in classic was not the initial resistance, but how short/unreliable its duration was. Here, before the patch, the initial resistance was low, but particularly the duration was almost always very long. Once you had it, it was very reliable to keep that for a good duration, unlike the 1-2-3 tick charms you often had in classic.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

casters here have reaped the benefits on non-classic resists in their favor for YEARS. so, while i think tweaking is needed its hard for me to feel too badly right now after personally taking advantage of this for so long. i'm more than due a few resists---even resist deaths.

I can understand the sentiment, but at the same time the benefits reaped by a 60 enchanter who could farm to their heart's content aren't something the new, untwinked 30 shaman trying to root-rot should pay for.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as for the hard-wired 5% thing, i'm not sure if its correct.

I agree with you. I (hazily) seem to remember getting resists on ridiculously green mobs, but I feel they were lower than 5%. Likewise, the odd super-greenie managed to land spells on my 50/60, but that was extremely rare. Fire/ice/poison/disease seemed to land a lot more than magic as well in these situations (probably because of partial not binary resist?).

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

has anyone here actually tested out the 5% hypothesis on p99 since the last patch?

I'm going to start gathering some data. If anyone wants to help out or donate clarity, it'd be much appreciated.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in any case, in the long run, i think this patch is good. it moves the game-play forward in the right direction (more like it was in classic) despite needing some tweaking.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

like other major patches (sit aggro, removing spell lists, etc.) players will eventually see its merits.

I agree it's a good change. Root and charm were far too easy/safe. But I think it's not yet time to call work on resist rates/system done.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

charm and root breaks? dd resists? its part of the reason why some folks preferred to play the less explosive but more consistently reliable melee classes during classic era.

I remember classic being filled with a lot of casters too. Bards and enchanters were far less common however. Wizards were a lot more common however (I guess people didn't understand the efficiency calculations as much vs rogue). And there were a lot of rangers.

[Decad]

Paralyzing Earth, Fetter all have a chance to break randomly with a very random duration on live. Unlike the long lasting duration here

Root was a last line of option for many caster classes, usually to park mobs and thus buying them slightly more random time to allow an enchanter to mez, or players to run for the zone, casters to cast gate etc.

On live enchanters are always in demand for the CC...via mesmerization line of spells. Not via roots.

Using roots as CC would only mean any other root class is a CC class. Not the traditional enchanter mesmerization line. And there are several enchanters here who are exactly doing that, using root and not mez line of spells.

[tanknspank]

So far, 106 casts of Snare (27 DRU) vs lvl 1 WFP mobs, 2 resists. This puts it at 1.88679% ± 0.23641%. Will continue after I score a new clarity.

[brecon]

Assuming a normal distribution, how gauche.

[tanknspank]

Assuming a binomial distribution, which is a fair assumption as neither myself nor the mob changed from cast to cast.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by tanknspank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So far, 106 casts of Snare (27 DRU) vs lvl 1 WFP mobs, 2 resists. This puts it at 1.88679% ± 0.23641%. Will continue after I score a new clarity.

Requesting permission to AutoFire spam some ES Gauntlet Snares overnight against a level 1 mob for resist test purposes. Please don't ban me!

[koros]

Originally Posted by tanknspank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming a binomial distribution, which is a fair assumption as neither myself nor the mob changed from cast to cast.

+1