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  #31  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:35 PM
wycca wycca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm certainly not on a campaign to keep out Fist of Nature no matter what and wouldn't be against it coming in as 1hb, but I think the item # argument is a bit tenuous.

Using the item list from: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/downloads.html

In the middle of Chardok revamp stuff is the Fist:
5776,"Fist of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5776

Other items added or upgraded in late Velious, especially Priceless Velium Fist Wraps:



But Primal Fist Wraps are way down the list with normal Primals:




Custom Velious Helms in the middle of Luclin items in the 2600s:


But other custom quested helms are way down the list in the 35000:



Some Sleeper's Tomb items are just a hundred spots away from cloth caps (1001) towards the beginning of the database.


Kunark stuff in the 6000s:
You actually reinforced my point (and saved me a bunch of research later).

Items added later are often designed together. The YY part of the YYXX numbering scheme doesn't matter a ton in the grand scheme (ie 65xx or 73xx), since items can be all over the place (ie primals by cloth caps) - but they are often in sequence with other items designed at a similar time. The XX part and being in sequence with other items is what does. That's why the wurm meat research is actually impactful - its in sequence with velious only items (and nobody can show it dropped in Kunark).

All of those patch additions are clumped roughly around when they went in and were designed in sequence.

The items you listed were designed in similar clumps, and the Fist of Nature ended up in the new Chardok revamp clump. The meat clumps show items that went in during Velious. The custom helms were clumped when they went in.

Like I said, I'm of the opinion that you just reinforced my own research. They design items in series for the most part. Who knows how they came up with the YY part of the YYXX numbering system, but the XX parts are typically share some similarity of either zone, type of item, or in terms of additions, by when they were added (ie expansion/patch). The Fist of Nature was in sequence with Chardok revamp items, which were put in 10-08-01. It's merely a piece of the body of evidence that suggests the Fist of Nature was not a luclin creation and it fits with the other parts of my research.
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Last edited by wycca; 03-06-2015 at 09:39 PM..
  #32  
Old 03-06-2015, 10:26 PM
Man0warr Man0warr is offline
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Yeah the ID numbers aren't always sequential based on time the item was created - since they have to be unique I assume the devs added big groups of items in number ranges that had no chance of conflict. Hence some Kunark clumps in the 6000s.
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  #33  
Old 03-06-2015, 10:53 PM
wycca wycca is offline
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I'm going to cross post it in the meat thread, but there's at least 2 reports of Faydedar loot from pre-Velious, which seem to clearly rule out meat dropping.
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  #34  
Old 03-07-2015, 03:22 AM
Rais Rais is offline
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Tunare is way off as to when we first killed Tunare for the first time. 0 spells should be able to land on her. Even lures were resisted 100%. I know we had roughly 110 on beta ranging in levels 52-60 and the fight lasted for a short time 9mins? We had around 60-70 of the best geared and took about 35+ mins to kill her. There also were a lot of max hits on her so I am guessing her ac is pretty low.

Was fun tho!
  #35  
Old 03-07-2015, 03:52 AM
Method Method is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Tunare is way off as to when we first killed Tunare for the first time. 0 spells should be able to land on her. Even lures were resisted 100%. I know we had roughly 110 on beta ranging in levels 52-60 and the fight lasted for a short time 9mins? We had around 60-70 of the best geared and took about 35+ mins to kill her. There also were a lot of max hits on her so I am guessing her ac is pretty low.

Was fun tho!
Same can be said with AoW, Both tunare and aow seem to be missing a lot as well, overall they both need to be tweaked a bit to get them up to par.
  #36  
Old 03-07-2015, 04:25 PM
Ele Ele is offline
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For reference, the rest of her specific loot table.

Essence of Nature between some Luclin items and Plane of Fear belt. Thorn and Girdle between some classic/kunark stuff and Stonebrunt stuff.
Quote:
2490,"Robe of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2490
2491,"Robe of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2491
2492,"Crystal Staff of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2492
2498,"Essence of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2498
2499,"Robe of Recovery",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2499
2500,"Girdle of the Diligent",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2500
2501,"Dweamorvine Garland",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2501
2502,"Flayed Turmoilskin Belt",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2502
2503,"Scaled Prowler Cloak",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2503
2504,"Scourgetail Bracer",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2504
2505,"Scaled Prowler Belt",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2505
2506,"Carrion Beetle Leggings",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2506
2507,"Blockcutter Gloves",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2507
2509,"Massive Heartwood Thorn",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2509
2510,"Girdle of Living Thorns",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2510

2512,"Blue Burlap Hood",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2512
2513,"Blue Burlap Veil",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2513
Braid, Flamberge, Sap, and Gold Leaf between some Stonebrunt Mtn. items.
Quote:
2575,"Astral Leggings of the Titans",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2575
2576,"Shattered Soul Orb",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2576
2577,"Shattered Fading Soul Orb",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2577
2578,"Spirit Reaver",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2578
2579,"Braid of Golden Hair",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2579
2580,"Petrified Heartwood Flamberge",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2580
2581,"Golden Leaf Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2581
2582,"Sap Encrusted Branch",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2582

2583,"Researcher's Badge",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2583
2584,"Live Enchanted Rat: Jar 1",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2584
Nature's Melody next to Trakanon's Tooth and those are between Luclin Grimling stuff.
Quote:
7275,"Grikplag's Sceptre",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7275
7276,"Trakanon's Tooth",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7276
7277,"Nature's Melody",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7277
7285,"Claw of the High Grimling",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7285
7286,"Claw of the Grimling Slayer",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7286
Blade of the swarm between random PoG Drop and Coldain Ring 9/10 and just after Blue Diamond Jewelry.
Quote:
30360,"Silver Blue Diamond Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30360
30361,"Blue Diamond Electrum Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30361
30362,"Golden Blue Diamond Pendant",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30362
30363,"Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30363
30364,"Silver Blue Diamond Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30364
30365,"Blue Diamond Electrum Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30365
30366,"Golden Blue Diamond Pendant",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30366
30367,"Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30367
30368,"Airstrand Gloves",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30368
30369,"Coldain Hero's Insignia Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30369
30372,"Stonewood Mail",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30372
30377,"Oakleaf Girdle",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30377
30380,"Blade of the Swarm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30380
30385,"Ring of Dain Frostreaver IV",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30385
30386,"Broken Velium Long Sword",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30386
  #37  
Old 03-07-2015, 05:16 PM
Raev Raev is offline
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I too was kind of sad to see the Avatar of War get stomped by a barely coordinated zerg, but I suppose that is just the fate of the Giants. Still:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logs
Ketsui shouts, '/GU The Avatar of War in 344s, 821k @2386dps --- Prollapse 25k @75dps --- Konsent 24k @72dps --- Koraf 23k @69dps --- Robbertt 23k @67dps --- Eldon 22k @85dps --- Peekae 22k @66dps --- Devlish 22k @66dps --- Fetal 22k @68dps --- Talsabis 20k @61dps --- Akashx 20k @60dps'
His AC seems way too low. Ragebringer Rogues doing 85 dps, even with Avatar? He's supposed to be the toughest mob in the game. Cutting that by a 25-30% feels like it would be way more balanced.

Also I would love to see his cooldown decreased. It's already really fast (it seems like just over 1 second based on the logs I saw) but without an AE or Rampage he has no other way to eat through a zerg of players. 0.75 seconds or something would be really nice.

Finally I suspect Cobblestone is right that the Fist of Nature was put in during the Great Monk Upgrade (why monks needed an upgrade I have no idea). Its stats match perfectly with Vulak's 16/19 fist.
  #38  
Old 03-07-2015, 05:47 PM
Littlegyno 13.0 Littlegyno 13.0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I too was kind of sad to see the Avatar of War get stomped by a barely coordinated zerg, but I suppose that is just the fate of the Giants. Still:



His AC seems way too low. Ragebringer Rogues doing 85 dps, even with Avatar? He's supposed to be the toughest mob in the game. Cutting that by a 25-30% feels like it would be way more balanced.

Also I would love to see his cooldown decreased. It's already really fast (it seems like just over 1 second based on the logs I saw) but without an AE or Rampage he has no other way to eat through a zerg of players. 0.75 seconds or something would be really nice.

Finally I suspect Cobblestone is right that the Fist of Nature was put in during the Great Monk Upgrade (why monks needed an upgrade I have no idea). Its stats match perfectly with Vulak's 16/19 fist.
i agree, he seemed WAY too easy even for a 120 man zerg.
  #39  
Old 03-07-2015, 08:07 PM
wycca wycca is offline
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Yea, if he was that easy for a 120-person zerg then he would have died a ton. LoS+SoS had around that many people if I recalled, and still needed bind rushing (a tactic sadly not available on P99 due to implementing near-Luclin bind rules in Kael on day 1).

That being said, I sincerely doubt that classic guilds had P99's concentration of dps. I do agree that AC seems too low though. No classic parses to base it on, but thats awfully high dps on him.
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  #40  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:21 PM
Method Method is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wycca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yea, if he was that easy for a 120-person zerg then he would have died a ton. LoS+SoS had around that many people if I recalled, and still needed bind rushing (a tactic sadly not available on P99 due to implementing near-Luclin bind rules in Kael on day 1).

That being said, I sincerely doubt that classic guilds had P99's concentration of dps. I do agree that AC seems too low though. No classic parses to base it on, but thats awfully high dps on him.
Looking over the damage logs for Tunare and AoW, both have a extremely low dps output around 2k. This would explain why keeping a tank up in kunark gear isn't all that difficult, AoW or tunare back on live would get one good round off and take out a 7k hp tank with ease. Also tunare had insane hp regen on live, i'm not sure how she is setup here but that could be off as well.
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