Pantheon kickstarter

[Swish]

Just upped my pledge from $20 to $75.

They've got a mountain to climb with only 2 weeks to go!

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I should check out their KS page then. It's not just items though, it's the whole world changing. Some people need world changing to keep them interested, but someone like me needs it to stay the same. It's whats great about P1999, it won't go past velious, so that goal post will never move. It seems like just leaving one server in perma classic would be simple, but I don't see anyone doing it, so who knows.

I played WoW at some point. A million expansions later, I gave up, way too much to keep track of. EQ... that went down hill long ago as Kunark/Velious were the glory days. Diablo... that's inflation bonanza too.

Sadly, I have to agree. BUT I'd like to see Pantheon succeed. Why? Because without MMORPGs having evolved and being greedy, THERE WOULDN'T BE A P1999 to talk about. Without all of the mudflation commercial mmorpgs experience and the constant need they have to mimic each other and chase after more users for more money, there wouldn't be the leftovers they produce which is what allowed p1999 to exist.

OK, there might be MMORPGs without a large commercial industry, but they'd be less impressive. Frankly, the "free" mmorpgs rarely are very good. Their quality is usually low in terms of graphics and fancy things. Yes, they're not as quick to change themselves to chase after $$$, but the truth is they suffer a lot. The commercial industry is like a giant machine and it produces mmorpg ideas and real world working examples.

Greed, in moderation, is good. Without it, I don't think we'd even exist. It helps to motivate us to produce. We need production to make things. It encourages us to make them better so we can more money. Removing greed from the equation of life is like removing sexual desire from the equation of sexual reproduction.

People need money to live. Game makers make games not just because they like to, but because they need to make a living. Otherwise, all you get is what they make in their spare time. People DO make things and do not expect anything in return, but that's an exception, not the rule. Our society is about give and take.

Believe me - please - I know exactly where you're coming from, or I think I do. I've talked about mudflation and greed in these forums and in others for years and years. I don't like it either. MMORPG makers are always copying each other to get more users and it's a dog eats dog world out there. Many times decisions are made not by the programmers or artists or story makers or designers but by the people who're financing it and managing it. They're single minded in their desire to make money and increase the size of the business. The worst companies will bulldoze their loyal customers just so they can have a chance to grab a larger audience. Not only will they do this like hitmen, but they'll make it all sound like it's beneficial and desirable.

BUT the difference between the worst and best companies is blurry. This is because the market is always changing and trying to adapt itself. Expansions and game changing things will always happen.

If you want something to stay the same your best chance is to cut out the profit. HOWEVER, that something, like p1999, likely depends on others NOT cutting out the profits. Industry needs profits.

And btw one good example of an mmorpg copying another to grab users is what Anarchy Online did with Shadowlands. Shadowlands was essentially a ripoff of Everquest. I recall reading writings by the developers of AO explaining how Everquest was such an awesome invention. It had more group mechanics and open world and less of the features associated with Rubi-Ka and old-style Anarchy Online. You know what the IRONY is????? The OLD Anarchy Online used lots of instances and yet Shadowlands tried to be more open world, and this all happened just before or during the time when instances exploded in popularity. Now, doing this may have helped Anarchy Online to be more like Everquest and increase its userbase, but I wonder how much?? All of this sounds so familiar and yet so ancient, as it's common to see modern mmorpgs copy each other.

[beentheredonethat]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Believe me - please - I know exactly where you're coming from, or I think I do. I've talked about mudflation and greed in these forums and in others for years and years. I don't like it either. MMORPG makers are always copying each other to get more users and it's a dog eats dog world out there. Many times decisions are made not by the programmers or artists or story makers or designers but by the people who're financing it and managing it. They're single minded in their desire to make money and increase the size of the business. The worst companies will bulldoze their loyal customers just so they can have a chance to grab a larger audience. Not only will they do this like hitmen, but they'll make it all sound like it's beneficial and desirable.

I think video game companies haven't evolved enough to simply figure it out. They are still just copying each other, their product is usually out there for an average user, and everyone else sort of has to fall in line. But I bet if some game maker came out and made something that works for different type of players, they could be the new cool.

I think many of them simply haven't figured it out yet. They know how to launch a game, and how to make expansions. But they really have no idea how to keep the player base interested once world scales too large. Like you said, P1999 wouldn't exist if they actually covered that base.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think video game companies haven't evolved enough to simply figure it out. They are still just copying each other, their product is usually out there for an average user, and everyone else sort of has to fall in line. But I bet if some game maker came out and made something that works for different type of players, they could be the new cool.

I think many of them simply haven't figured it out yet. They know how to launch a game, and how to make expansions. But they really have no idea how to keep the player base interested once world scales too large. Like you said, P1999 wouldn't exist if they actually covered that base.

My response to that is:

1) You're contradicting your own statements which are that COMMERCIAL mmorpg's are always moving the goal post and changing themselves to make more money, right? If so, then how can they make something like p1999 which depends on the goal posts staying in place? I addressed this in my reply when I stated if you want something to stay the same then you cut out the profits. BUT I also mentioned how p1999 would not exist if it hadn't been for greedy companies creating the whole EQ franchise and abusing it. The greed and commercial activities act together as a giant machine which produces ideas and working examples.

2) Making games for minority populations isn't profitable until you have easy answers. The big companies focus on the majority populations because that's where all the money is going to be. They don't have easy answers yet. ALTHOUGH they can make grindy gameplay for hardcore 24/7 gamers at the end-game. Those're hte kind of gamers who have lots of time and/or money and are extremely competitive and willing to grind. Grindy content is easy to make. You just make some content and then you repeat it. Cheap and easy, so they do it.

MY belief is some people play p1999 not because of nostalgia but because of the gameplay. And finding this sort of gameplay is hard to do in the commercial industry because of the above reasons. It's hard for them to focus on the majority AND the minority in the same game. It's also hard for minority games to make enough money to survive. And because money is driving them, they're constantly tempted to move the goal posts and change their game to expand their business - all of which would threaten something like p1999.

In my particular case, I don't like the grinding or camping or button-mashing in classic EQ, but I like how kiting works and some other things. There's not a lot of summoning in classic EQ, versus the modern game, so you can get really creative in killing things. I also like how non-players are scripted to move around and talk, rather than just standing still. I like how the game doesn't try to be convenient on every level, but instead just exists. I am a visitor, as opposed to someone being serviced. I like how the dungeons are so tight and twisting and even maze-like. I like how in-game maps aren't yet glorified and the UI isn't as cluttered as the modern game. Because of all this, you're focused more on the world around you. I also like how the movement works. Point-and-click is so much less natural. I could say some other things. Some people really like how it's group-oriented because they think it puts the emphasis on being social. However, I think this can also be a weakness because it's completely population-dependent. Furthermore, because classic EQ is open world, that can also create problems for a game that's already strongly population-dependent. I first played EQ in early 1999.

[Grozmok]

lolwut

[mrgoochio]

Considering pledging $250 for the kickstarter.. but honestly doesn't seem likely this will get funded. I realize everyone posting about kickstarter trends, but from where it stands now.. idk. Game needs over $34,000 per day for the rest of the run. Seeing as how there is only a few more hours left in today, it actually needs more like $37,000+ per day... got my fingers crossed though, would love to see this project funded

[Swish]

It's true they need to pull a rabbit out of the hat at this point, its barely moved today.

[mrgoochio]

I feel like perhaps most of the original classic era players are much older now and aren't playing games or haven't heard about pantheon (EQ, DAoC, FFXI, etc. players) and brad doesn't have a large enough name or legacy for newer era players to know or even care about his new project. I've been waiting for this for like 10 years and I'm super excited and I still haven't pledged.. not hard to believe other people less excited aren't pledging either.

[A1551]

Originally Posted by mrgoochio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like perhaps most of the original classic era players are much older now and aren't playing games or haven't heard about pantheon (EQ, DAoC, FFXI, etc. players) and brad doesn't have a large enough name or legacy for newer era players to know or even care about his new project. I've been waiting for this for like 10 years and I'm super excited and I still haven't pledged.. not hard to believe other people less excited aren't pledging either.

Then pledge! If it doesn't succeed it costs you nothing and sitting on the sideline just makes other people say the same thing and also sit there....its a self perpetuating cycle that kills these things. The kickstarter certainly isn't doing as well as I'd like, but it ain't dead yet either -- as mentioned earlier pathfinder online got $221,000 in literally a single day (its last day)

In fact at this time (13 days to go) Pathfinder online still needed 454K in funding. As of this second Pantheon needs 446K with 13 days to go, and pathfinder ended up funding about 100k over target.

I expect the pantheon team is hard at work generating a blitz of press, info releases, etc for the final week to try and push this over the edge.

[mrgoochio]

Anyone know if the $250 tier free year + $1/yr applies to both copies of the game you receive or just one? I'm assuming just one, but would be cool if it was both