Shaman: Lets put this Stun vs Regen thing to rest

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am stunned that there's ANOTHER thread about this.






But would i still be stunned if my shaman was an ogre???

I wouldn't be stunned if your shaman was an Ogre, though I would be stunned if my own shaman was an Ogre ^^

[gobbosnobbo]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does not do this. It only specifically works on mobs from the frontal cone. You can still be stunned by bashes from the side or behind.



Also not a perk of FSI. Anybody can stand in the corner to avoid push.



Wut?



Dublewut? Not if rooted or trying to move backwards while snared.



This assumes that A) the boss has bash up and didn't use it on the tank/puller or doesn't flurry and B) you didn't die during the four other attacks that round. That said, if a shaman with FSI was able to survive the round, I'd assume that a shaman without FSI would also be able to survive that and have just as much chance to get a heal off or be healed by another raid member as one with FSI.



Bash time should be independent of attack speed (unless flurries), but if it works the way you state, this is a perk against FSI because it would be less useful while the mob is slowed.

I think you were assuming a lot of things when I was stating.

The post was made with the obvious prior knowledge that stun resist only works from the front, and not accounting extra-ordinary situations that would obviously nullify the effect.

I mean, thats like saying regen doesn't regen because you had dots casted on you nullifying the effect, or you were always in a situation that made it meaningless.

[Troxx]

How much is 8 standing and 11 sitting regen worth to you that stacks with all other regen?

What about those hardest upper 50 levels pre-torpor (the game changer) where it's a measly 7 standing vs 10 sitting?

How much money do people dump on a fungi? Racial regen in the upper 50s is between half and 2/3 of a fungi (that stacks with a fungi), that's there 100% of the time. If anything you could argue that FSI is more of an advantage in the lower levels before the regen differences btw troll/iks and the rest really take off. Hitting levels 51 and 56 respectively were hugely noticable on my shaman, each of those levels was like putting on an extra Ikky regen bp - for free on leveling.

On a tick by tick basis 8/11 might seem like a small thing, but over the course of:
-each minute that's 80-110 extra hp (40-55 extra mana)
-each hour that's 4800-6600 extra hp (2400-3300 extra mana)
-each 4 hour xp session that's 19200-26400 extra hp (9600-13200 extra mana)

On a semi-permanent basis, does FSI realistically do as much for you as the above? How many times did it *really* make a difference other than a minor convenience? Make no mistake, in a game where the max you can meditate is ~20 mana/tick, every little extra bit of hp regen (that can be converted to mana at a 2:1 ratio) is a powerful thing.

Unless afk, a good shaman should never be full health or full mana. On Jolav, if I get above 95% health, I'm hitting canni to drop lower and suckle that sweet sweet regen teet. If I'm full mana for whatever reason, time to refresh haste/regrowth/whatever early. Time spent full health (ie you're also full mana or a terrible shaman) where the regen isn't working for you is time wasted.

The regen is always there, and it should be always working for you.

[suppresso]

Ogre. Now gtfo

Drops mic

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by gobbosnobbo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, thats like saying regen doesn't regen because you had dots casted on you nullifying the effect, or you were always in a situation that made it meaningless.

Regen would still be better than FSI in such a situation. A more apt comparison would be to say "how much are you regenning when you're at full health" but seriously, how often does a good shaman that's using cannibalize reach 100% HP.

[maestrom]

Inny trolls can use the snare neck.

How useful is this in real life? I assume its less important 56+ with PE. But if you're root rotting 1-2 baddies, how realistic is it to keep snare on them so when root breaks they don't ever get close enough to interrupt your root?

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe ogre stun immunity will be worth it at 60 with torpor, but most shamans will never get there.

Nah. I'm a 60 troll with torpor. Only times I would be tanking something and might get stunned:

1) drawing aggro on a raid boss. I'm dead in 2 seconds anyway, stun doesn't matter.

2) fighting named mobs. I don't have trouble fighting named mobs if a) they can be slowed b) they aren't casters. A mob getting a lucky bash off that interrupts torpor isn't a big deal because I'll be able to easily cast torpor again in time to heal myself, or switch to Chloroblast and then torpor. If it's a caster I'll either heal through their nukes and dispells and stuns and be fine or I'll die from nukes/stuns.

3) fighting multiple mobs. If by some miracle they are all in front of me and not behind, and they're not slowed, I'm dead anyway unless I have AE slow memmed. This is the one case where maybe I could channel through a bunch of unslowed hits and get AE slow off whereas a bash would make me dead for sure. This almost never comes up though, and I never have AE slow memmed anyways.

4) soloing dragons in WW. If I die from this it's either from a wandering dragon, or from not being able to out heal the DPS of the AE+melee+canni and eventually running oom. Sure a dragon might get off a lucky bash and interrupt torpor but generally I'm going into this fight with enough HP that I start off torpor heals at 70% and if I get interrupted I'll just try again.

Whereas all of the situations above, passive regen helps either a little or a lot. Those long 20 minute soloing dragons in WW fights? Passive regen helps A LOT. Fighting those 1 million hp raid mobs, or buffing an entire raid? Passive regen helps mana regen so you can spend less time torporing yourself and more time cannibalizing. Fighting named mobs? Passive regen helps a little, mostly in recovery time between fights allowing you to engage to the named mob faster before respawns.

This is also why you'll never sell your fungi on your shaman. Even after I get a vindi VP (which is, IMO, best in slot for shaman BP) I will still keep my fungi around for cases where I'm not tanking or taking AE damage. Lvl 60 troll/iksar regen + fungi + regrowth is just a stupid amount of regen.

Still though, I laugh at the premise of this thread, people are going to pick what they like the most and thus this argument will never die. The differences between the benefits of passive regen and stun immunity aren't game breaking, they won't determine whether or not you make it into a raid guild, groups won't care, the only person that really cares is yourself, so just play what you want. Unless you're a necro, in which case pick Iksar you dumb fucker.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Inny trolls can use the snare neck.

How useful is this in real life? I assume its less important 56+ with PE. But if you're root rotting 1-2 baddies, how realistic is it to keep snare on them so when root breaks they don't ever get close enough to interrupt your root?

Not realistic. The snare is barely a snare and it only lasts 36 seconds. Marginally useful when you're fighting in a dungeon with no snare class (or solo) and a mob starts to run.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When does frontal stun immunity work?

-Whenever fighting a Melee mob that interrupts with bash, and only if the bash is successful, but does nothing to prevent Melee interrupts from push.

I'm restating, but this is the main point. The ONLY time you'll benefit from FSI is when you're facing a mob, it bashes, and the bash doesn't miss. This isn't a common occurrence, especially if the mob is slowed and you're a decently geared shaman. And even then, it's not guaranteed to make a big difference, you'd still more than likely get the spell off in time after the initial bash.

Whereas...

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The regen is always there. ALWAYS there. Regen is nice for all classes, but for necromancers and shamans in particular (given their dynamic ability to convert mana to hp and vice versa) - regen is more than just nice; it's clutch.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not realistic. The snare is barely a snare and it only lasts 36 seconds. Marginally useful when you're fighting in a dungeon with no snare class (or solo) and a mob starts to run.

I've found snare now stacks well with root in case root breaks early, but on a shaman that can cannibalise would the time spent casting this snare be better spent casting something else?