Question - Is there a level-based AC cap?

[Ransurian]

I've always assumed that stacking AC is always a good thing, even for low-level characters. However, I recently stumbled across a (somewhat old) thread that mentions a level-based AC cap, which quotes an EQ dev that used to work on "core game mechanics." Here's the thread in question.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=48312

"Re: Feed back on soft cap

Kavhok
EQ Designer
Posts: 14

Your AC cap was lowered. That was absolutely and unequivocally a nerf. I didn't mean in any way to imply otherwise.

Let me give a more full explanation of what happened, though. Here's how the AC formula used to work before the patch immediately preceding PoP:

The AC from your items was added up, but the value used for it was hard capped based on your level. This was the same for all classes. Once you had 289 raw AC from items (or 385 as a cloth class, since they get less effect from item AC), that was it. More AC from items wouldn't do anything.

After this, it added your class bonuses (including the monk bonus, which is equivalent to your level + 5 in raw item AC), defense skill bonus, agility bonus, and the AC from spell buffs.

Total AC at this point was capped again, this time based on class. In the Kunark-era code, this was a hard cap, but sometime during Velious it was changed to a soft cap for melee classes only. The return was fairly small, though.


The pre-PoP patch did a few things:

- The cap on item AC was no longer used except at lower levels (twinking was a concern since that was before recommended level items were in heavy use)."

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What does all this mean? Is it meaningless to equip Cobalt / Blood Ember / etc at lower levels? Does anyone have the slightest clue what the numbers are in terms of a formula for calculating an AC cap based on level?

[Dolalin]

The answer is, there must be, otherwise twinking would be out of control.

According to this page, EQ Live has a sub-50 AC hard cap of (25 + (6 * level)). I would suggest this is probably also the formula here.

http://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Armor_Class

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The answer is, there must be, otherwise twinking would be out of control.

According to this page, EQ Live has a sub-50 AC hard cap of (25 + (6 * level)). I would suggest this is probably also the formula here.

http://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Armor_Class

I believe that this particular per level ac cap was put in with one of the much later AC system revamps and would not be classic. After all, we know the 51 and 60 kunark/early velious hardcaps for melees were 163 and 289, which are way below what that formula would provide.

Previous to this system, and going by the OPs link there were AC caps based on level, and it would be classic to use the same system here. That said, p1999 does not always follow what is 'classic', so maybe some of the caps are absent.

I have not parsed, but while levelling up many toons it seems that when attacking mobs a bit higher than you that no matter how much worn AC you try to stack you simply can't mitigate those. Something seems to be preventing mitigation AC coming close to those mobs ATK values. Maybe it is in my mind, but in these instances buff AC does seem to help. In practical terms there does seem to be a point of diminished returns from worn AC, which I guess points to a cap. It would be interesting to know for sure.

What I find particularly interesting is the dev post also gives values for how lvl 51 and 60 plate tanks should be tanking mobs a few levels below them with ~maxed worn ac (~60% hit rate and max hits 10% of the time) in a pre-planar environment and wonder if it would be appropriate to balance any p99 mobs around these values.

[Ransurian]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have not parsed, but while levelling up many toons it seems that when attacking mobs a bit higher than you that no matter how much worn AC you try to stack you simply can't mitigate those. Something seems to be preventing mitigation AC coming close to those mobs ATK values.

I've noticed that, too. Yellow /con mobs hit like dump trucks -- I wonder if this points to more than just a hidden AC cap.

[Jimjam]

That is very interesting. Was this a feature on live? I've never seen any documentation mention this.