Game Mechanics: Worn haste bug

[getsome]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...05657276252990

From June 2003

[KorafRN]

"Haste will effect your BS timer. You can nearly halve the 8 second timer with a full gammut of haste buffs/items/songs." June 2003

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...05004039723761

I can't find anything within timeline, and it was pretty difficult to find much of anything discussing this. Hope these this quote and the previous one help.

Derp, same reference as getsomes

[Daldaen]

EQCleric 2001

Another tip when grouping with a Rogue is to call your stuns. This way they know that if the mob is facing them that they should hold off using evade and they also have time to move to the mobs back for their backstab. At higher levels 40+ I think you'll find that using stuns, so they can BS, will be more effective than tanking for them. My rogue is 42 with an ac of 750, with dodge and riposte I can tank better than a cleric near my level. BS refreshes every 10 secs with no haste, so a stun every 10 seconds is enough to get them all in.

Doesn't explicitly state that worn haste should drop it but... If any haste did in 2001 it's likely both varieties did.

[Mud]

Here are some post-patch tests I did. For tests 1-3 with Guard Heridion, I backstabbed from the front, which simply gives an additional normal swing and obv wouldn't state "You backstab..." Cooldown for the ability is the same regardless of front/back.

Based on these data, Ragebringer's worn effect haste does not appear to have an affect on backstab cooldown, while worn non-effect haste (Renard's Belt is 41%) and spell haste do. This doesn't answer what is classic or not, but rather demonstrates how things currently are.

Average backstab cooldowns (numbers 1-3 are without buffs)
1. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt not equipped: 10.22 seconds
2. Ragebringer equipped, Renard's Belt not equipped: 10.25 seconds
3. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt equipped: 7.32 seconds
4. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt equipped plus Visions of Grandeur: 5.25 seconds

1. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt not equipped: 10.22 seconds (184/18 = 10.22)
[tue may 03 18:45:02 2016] You backstab Guard Heridion for 159 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:45:12 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 36 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:45:22 2016] You try to pierce Guard Heridion, but miss!
[tue may 03 18:45:32 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 37 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:45:43 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 33 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:45:53 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 29 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:03 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 33 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:13 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 32 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:23 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 18 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:34 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 19 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:44 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 33 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:46:54 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 47 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:05 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 28 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:15 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 28 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:25 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 37 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:35 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 29 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:46 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 53 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:47:56 2016] You try to pierce Guard Heridion, but miss!
[tue may 03 18:48:06 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 32 points of damage.

2. Ragebringer equipped, Renard's Belt not equipped: 10.25 seconds (123/12 = 10.25)
[tue may 03 18:48:18 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 88 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:48:29 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:48:39 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:48:49 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 46 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:48:59 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 60 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:49:10 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 89 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:49:20 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 51 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:49:30 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 23 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:49:40 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 67 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:49:50 2016] You try to pierce Guard Heridion, but miss!
[tue may 03 18:50:01 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 73 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:50:11 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 78 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:50:21 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 50 points of damage.

3. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt equipped: 7.32 seconds (161/22 = 7.32)
[tue may 03 18:51:45 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:51:53 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 42 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:00 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 63 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:07 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:15 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 82 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:22 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 86 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:29 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 44 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:37 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:44 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 54 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:51 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 52 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:52:59 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:06 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:13 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 89 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:21 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 49 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:28 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 45 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:35 2016] You try to pierce Guard Heridion, but Guard Heridion dodges!
[tue may 03 18:53:43 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 78 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:50 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 42 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:53:57 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:54:05 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:54:12 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 41 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:54:19 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 52 points of damage.
[tue may 03 18:54:26 2016] You pierce Guard Heridion for 49 points of damage.

4. Ragebringer and Renard's Belt equipped plus Visions of Grandeur: 5.25 seconds (63/12 = 5.25 )
[Sun May 01 20:02:43 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:02:48 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 299 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:02:53 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 235 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:02:59 2016] You try to backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar, but miss!
[Sun May 01 20:02:59 2016] You try to backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar, but miss!
[Sun May 01 20:03:04 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:09 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:14 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:19 2016] You try to backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar, but miss!
[Sun May 01 20:03:25 2016] You try to backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar, but miss!
[Sun May 01 20:03:25 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:30 2016] You try to backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar, but miss!
[Sun May 01 20:03:35 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:41 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 120 points of damage.
[Sun May 01 20:03:46 2016] You backstab an ancient tigerclaw racnar for 203 points of damage.

[Erati]

Seems like a oversight error - Epic haste effects should be affecting cool downs just like the other haste items, but just because they are not named "haste" they seem to be ignoring the mechanic.

[Erati]

^

[Mud]

bump

[Ivory]

Worn haste is apparently not effecting archery either ATM!!! Which we can all agree is the much more critical issue.

[Mud]

Relevant P99 thread: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=167376

April 2002 posts. These are closer to classic era -- still looking for pre-Luclin evidence.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=11417

Originally Posted by JhasonMacKintosh (April 5, 2002)

Pardon me but you are incorrect, haste DOES effect the refresh rate for backstab, as it does for all other special attacks, bash, kick, flying kick, etc. The base timer without haste is 10 seconds for backstab, with a FBSS it's roughly 8 seconds, if you are rage equiped it's 6 seconds.

Originally Posted by Wurmfood (April 5, 2002)

I am not 100 percent sure, but I think that haste does in fact effect Backstab refresh times. I just checked with Ragebringer equipped and then without it equipped, and the refresh on the backstab button was almost 2 seconds faster with Ragebringer equipped. I believe that RB has a haste of around 40 percent. This was a short little dry run, and I'm gonna do several more tests to get an average to make sure I didn't get a bum sample. If anyone else has done an exhaustive study of this, please post here and maybe save me some time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mud]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...99098331135932

Originally Posted by Prixx (May 27, 2001)

thing to remember Rogues is the noticable difference haste has on oppertunity to activate BS/disarm/instill doubt. I BS every 8 seconds with no haste, with FBSS and Alacrity I BS every 6.5 seconds (roughly 38% haste and 19 extra swings per 100). The rates of disarm and instill doubt go up the same as well. With bane of garou (sp) and FBSS I BS every 5.5 seconds (roughly 62% haste and 31 extra swings per 100) You see where this is going?

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...00158280964208

Originally Posted by Lady Ishwar (September 27, 2001)

Most people report the haste to be a 21% speed increase [referencing FBSS], or equivalent a 17% delay reduction (a 100% speed increase gives a 50% delay reduction, as when you are twice as fast, you get things done in half the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

I have only done a simple test, timing 3 consecutive backstabs to take a total of 25 seconds. Normally they take 10 seconds each. This is a 16.7% delay reduction, so within error, it looks consistent with the 17% expected value.