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  #31  
Old 01-17-2017, 02:59 PM
Skinned Skinned is offline
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Originally Posted by nectarprime [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Being nice is its own reward. They teach you this in elementary school.
In graduate school for social work they trained me to encourage people to be self-sufficient and not dependent on others.

If a player was an elementary school child trying to get someone I would give them a hand.

I still port people, but I'm always disappointed in poor and cheap skate tippers. Like I said before, at least I'm not their waiter. Go stiff your waiter and tell them being nice is its own reward lol.

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  #32  
Old 01-17-2017, 03:02 PM
nectarprime nectarprime is offline
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Originally Posted by Skinned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
In graduate school for social work they trained me to encourage people to be self-sufficient and not dependent on others.

If a player was an elementary school child trying to get someone I would give them a hand.

I still port people, but I'm always disappointed in poor and cheap skate tippers. Like I said before, at least I'm not their waiter. Go stiff your waiter and tell them being nice is its own reward lol.

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I love it when people on the internet have to make up credentials to make themselves sound smart.

You're the one who said you only help people to be rewarded by the way
  #33  
Old 01-17-2017, 03:06 PM
Skinned Skinned is offline
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Originally Posted by nectarprime [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I love it when people on the internet have to make up credentials to make themselves sound smart.

You're the one who said you only help people to be rewarded by the way
I just didn't say that.

And who fakes a job as a social worker lol.

No need to defend cheap people. I run on my alts and ride boats all the time.

Still seems like you're taking something out on me.
  #34  
Old 01-17-2017, 03:08 PM
Squabbles123 Squabbles123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I understand the reasoning behind this, but you have to see the whole picture to see that this kind of thinking is unfair and irrational.

What is assumed in this line of thinking is that EQ economics are analogous to real life economics when it is plainly not the case. When someone wins loot in a group, it feels like the others in the group have "lost" when they haven't lost anything. If a twink wins a piece of loot fairly on a roll, the other 5 are not going to lose their house in Kelethin as a result. They're not going to miss a meal or lose their health insurance. If they really, really want that item, the most they can possibly lose is extra time to go and get it for themselves: time playing a video game that they were going to spend time playing anyway.

Now the argument is that the twink can go farm plat to just buy the item they roll on. That's true for the noob too. There are plenty of low level camps new players can use to farm plat (and many do), so why should the twink be told to go out of his way to farm plat when even a first timer on this server has the same capacity? What makes the twink's time less important than a lesser-geared player?

But if the twink is being a lootwhore and winning all of the loot and not passing on things when he's already won something, then you can rightly call him out for being a greedy d-bag.

We are sufficiently off topic now. Be fair to your porters with your plat people, they are spending their time to save you yours.
The twink doesn't need to farm, he farms on his main which is level 60 and can make 4x the money a new player could make in half the time.

How is the non-twink going to farm giants or specters? The amount of locations for a newer player to realistically farm money are few, much less than the level 60 main has access to. Why should the new player spend every penny they have because the twink who has 60k in the bank wanted an extra 100pp?

The bottom line is the twink doesn't need the item, they are effectively rolling for money, the new player actually NEEDS the item to help them continue to play the game. You can not like it all you like, but as I said, if a twink takes my loot, I don't really ever want to play with that person again and will go out of my way to avoid them.
  #35  
Old 01-17-2017, 03:11 PM
Skinned Skinned is offline
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Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The twink doesn't need to farm, he farms on his main which is level 60 and can make 4x the money a new player could make in half the time.

How is the non-twink going to farm giants or specters? The amount of locations for a newer player to realistically farm money are few, much less than the level 60 main has access to. Why should the new player spend every penny they have because the twink who has 60k in the bank wanted an extra 100pp?

The bottom line is the twink doesn't need the item, they are effectively rolling for money, the new player actually NEEDS the item to help them continue to play the game. You can not like it all you like, but as I said, if a twink takes my loot, I don't really ever want to play with that person again and will go out of my way to avoid them.
On a personal level I agree with you. I tend not to roll on anything. I also have pretty well developed farming routines.
  #36  
Old 01-17-2017, 03:44 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The twink doesn't need to farm, he farms on his main which is level 60 and can make 4x the money a new player could make in half the time.

How is the non-twink going to farm giants or specters? The amount of locations for a newer player to realistically farm money are few, much less than thelevel 60 mainhas access to. Why should the new player spend every penny they have because the twink who has 60k in the bank wanted an extra 100pp?

The bottom line is the twink doesn't need the item, they are effectively rolling for money, the new player actually NEEDS the item to help them continue to play the game. You can not like it all you like, but as I said, if a twink takes my loot, I don't really ever want to play with that person again and will go out of my way to avoid them.
The highlighted are assumptions. When you play with enough people, you'll see that the twink with a level 60 farming class main and has 10's of thousands of plat in the bank is atypical. Typically, (at least most examples I've seen) the twinks are being groomed to be new mains by players who are tired of their old mains. The person who twinked that char very likely spent all of their expendable plat to twink that char, and in many cases sold off a lot of their gear on their old main to dress up their new main.

In regard to time. If the twink happens to have a level 60 farming class main, that doesn't mean it's easy to farm plat. There's quite a lot of time involved in travel, in competing with other farmers (especially at the high end) and in safely xfering plat/gear to their twink that could actually use the plat (since I'm assuming you don't expect them to spend their armor). That's time they spend not playing the character they want to play, in service to the character they do want to play. Not to mention, quite often in order to farm a lucrative camp (even something like HG's or spectres) you need to do it at odd hours to both A) get the camp and B) efficiently make plat.

As for the drop that was an upgrade to the newer player, but just plat for the twink, where should the line be? Is there a certain value the item should be before a twink can be allowed to roll on it? 150 plat? 500 plat? 1k? 3k? Should a twink be expected to pass on every drop?
  #37  
Old 01-17-2017, 04:21 PM
Squabbles123 Squabbles123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The highlighted are assumptions. When you play with enough people, you'll see that the twink with a level 60 farming class main and has 10's of thousands of plat in the bank is atypical. Typically, (at least most examples I've seen) the twinks are being groomed to be new mains by players who are tired of their old mains. The person who twinked that char very likely spent all of their expendable plat to twink that char, and in many cases sold off a lot of their gear on their old main to dress up their new main.

In regard to time. If the twink happens to have a level 60 farming class main, that doesn't mean it's easy to farm plat. There's quite a lot of time involved in travel, in competing with other farmers (especially at the high end) and in safely xfering plat/gear to their twink that could actually use the plat (since I'm assuming you don't expect them to spend their armor). That's time they spend not playing the character they want to play, in service to the character they do want to play. Not to mention, quite often in order to farm a lucrative camp (even something like HG's or spectres) you need to do it at odd hours to both A) get the camp and B) efficiently make plat.

As for the drop that was an upgrade to the newer player, but just plat for the twink, where should the line be? Is there a certain value the item should be before a twink can be allowed to roll on it? 150 plat? 500 plat? 1k? 3k? Should a twink be expected to pass on every drop?
So I went ahead and bolded your assumptions as well.

Twinking is not required, its optional, you can start a new character and play it "correctly" or just twink some basics (like a decent weapon and banded armor) to get into your teens quickly or something. I would suspect that selling EVERYTHING you own on a character you spent over a year playing to start over is NOT what normally happens. Not every twink out there is a person switching mains (which is a dumb concept on a server like this anyway honestly), I'd wager that MOST of them are just bored with their class and want to try something new, they have tons of money or gear laying around and they use they to fund the new toon. My "main" is a level 35 Shaman right now, I got a decent 1HS and some basic STR items...so I rolled a Paladin and twinked those over (along with a full set of Banded I made for them)...I'm not "switching mains", I'm just interested in playing more than 1 character...I'm already thinking about my 3rd and Paladin is level 12.

You don't need a "farming class" to farm at level 60, a warrior can farm at 60, maybe not blues, but you don't need to kill blues to farm money, literally EVERYONE can farm at 60, so yes, it most certainly is "easy". Sure there is competition, how is that different for the lowbie? He has competition as well, with smaller rewards. As well, the actual "farming classes" can farm naked anyway.

A level 60 doesn't have to worry about travel time, drop 60p (or whatever) on a port or just get a free one from your guild mates. Guild mates could also be used to safely move the items.

They don't need to spend time doing any of that...they already did it, before they made the character. The dude in full colored plate with top tier weapons doesn't need to farm anything.

As far as the line, I suppose that comes down somewhat to the item in question. If its a cheap fairly common item, need before greed, its not hard to inspect a player and see they are wearing junk. If its a EXPENSIVE item, like something worth 1000pp+, I'm okay with something like that being roll on by basically everyone, those are speciality items that are rare and in high demand...I don't expect exclusiveness on an item like THAT. I would prefer in those situations it went to someone who was more likely going to use the item over someone who is just going to sell it (or at least offer to sell it to the loser at a discount), but I can't really complain in that situation.

I'm much more talking basically items before ~ level 50 or so, pre-raid stuff most people don't REALLY care about, stuff half the server just gives away anyway, those things should to given to the non-twinks basically everytime.
Last edited by Squabbles123; 01-17-2017 at 04:23 PM..
  #38  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:42 PM
Neetas1320 Neetas1320 is offline
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10pp for a tip lol you aint gettin sow
  #39  
Old 01-17-2017, 06:51 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So I went ahead and bolded your assumptions as well.

Twinking is not required, its optional, you can start a new character and play it "correctly" or just twink some basics (like a decent weapon and banded armor) to get into your teens quickly or something. I would suspect that selling EVERYTHING you own on a character you spent over a year playing to start over is NOT what normally happens. Not every twink out there is a person switching mains (which is a dumb concept on a server like this anyway honestly), I'd wager that MOST of them are just bored with their class and want to try something new, they have tons of money or gear laying around and they use they to fund the new toon. My "main" is a level 35 Shaman right now, I got a decent 1HS and some basic STR items...so I rolled a Paladin and twinked those over (along with a full set of Banded I made for them)...I'm not "switching mains", I'm just interested in playing more than 1 character...I'm already thinking about my 3rd and Paladin is level 12.

You don't need a "farming class" to farm at level 60, a warrior can farm at 60, maybe not blues, but you don't need to kill blues to farm money, literally EVERYONE can farm at 60, so yes, it most certainly is "easy". Sure there is competition, how is that different for the lowbie? He has competition as well, with smaller rewards. As well, the actual "farming classes" can farm naked anyway.

A level 60 doesn't have to worry about travel time, drop 60p (or whatever) on a port or just get a free one from your guild mates. Guild mates could also be used to safely move the items.

They don't need to spend time doing any of that...they already did it, before they made the character. The dude in full colored plate with top tier weapons doesn't need to farm anything.

As far as the line, I suppose that comes down somewhat to the item in question. If its a cheap fairly common item, need before greed, its not hard to inspect a player and see they are wearing junk. If its a EXPENSIVE item, like something worth 1000pp+, I'm okay with something like that being roll on by basically everyone, those are speciality items that are rare and in high demand...I don't expect exclusiveness on an item like THAT. I would prefer in those situations it went to someone who was more likely going to use the item over someone who is just going to sell it (or at least offer to sell it to the loser at a discount), but I can't really complain in that situation.

I'm much more talking basically items before ~ level 50 or so, pre-raid stuff most people don't REALLY care about, stuff half the server just gives away anyway, those things should to given to the non-twinks basically everytime.
New players can join guilds and get ports from guildies too, it happens all the time in fact.

What's your highest level? Do you have a 60? If not, when you get to 60, do some farming for yourself, record the time invested (counting travel time, EC selling time, transfer time, etc) and how much plat you farmed. I bet you'd be quite surprised at how long it actually takes to farm plat, even as a 60.

To say a twink can't use an item as much as a non-twink is just wrong. A twink doesn't roll on an item just to put it in his bank and look at.

What happens in a group with "Johnny-needs-it-the-most", 2 twinks, and 3 average geared players? Everyone rolls on an item that drops. It's a fair roll, everyone gets the same shot at it. The item goes to average geared player. It's good for 150p. That's enough to put a dent in average player's next planned upgrade purchase. Do you fault him for looting it over "Johnny-needs-it-the-most"? How is this outcome any different for Johnny than if twink got it, or anyone not Johnny got it or if the item never dropped at all? Johnny has not lost anything.

For me personally, I pass on everything when I'm leveling a twink, but I'm not going to fault someone for rolling on something they had an equal hand in getting to drop because it'd give them more time to play the character they want to play and less time farming. And you can say all you want about how that 150 plat may only represent 10-15 minutes of farming as a level 60 (in truth it's probably more time), but it adds up to a hell of a lot of time if you're passing up on all loot because of someone else's moral code.
Last edited by Ravager; 01-17-2017 at 06:58 PM..
  #40  
Old 01-17-2017, 06:57 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Originally Posted by Neetas1320 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
10pp for a tip lol you aint gettin sow
I generally tip with a Ruby and half the time I still don't get a sow.
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