Raid question - helping other guilds.

[Morgander]

Simple question but no matter who I ask (including petitioning), nobody can answer the question.

If someone from a class C guild wanted to help a class R guild with a raid mob, can they?

If so, what's the limit? 1 person? 2 people?

And if not, what prevents someone from just swapping guild tags?

What if you have a character in both guilds?

[quido]

If I had to guess, I'd imagine that any legit class R raid force could opt to include anyone they please. Don't quote me though =P

[Cecily]

It would honestly depend on whichever faction decided to be highly offended by the assistance. Could they, yes. Would there be consequences.. maybe. If you're talking FFA, I won't assist any other guild simply because my guild still has a chance of getting the kill if the other guild in question wipes. Helping, unless ordered to, in this case would get me yelled at by my guild. If you're talking Class R mobs, assisting a Class R guild would blur the lines between C and R, could cause some drama, and (god help us) incite another Chest post. Staff might not appreciate that.

[YendorLootmonkey]

It was never specifically addressed by staff when asked:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=36

The only guidance near what is being asked was posted here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=10

"As a 'heads-up' for all the Class R guilds out there, if two guilds engage and kill a Class R target, a lockout on that mob will apply to both guilds. If you don't want the lockout to apply to your guild, don't get someone on the hate list for that target while it's being killed by another guild."

So, to extrapolate based on what we know...

-

For Class C mobs, there are only two raid forces present willing to play in that arena, so you'd be either:

A) a person in a Class C guild directly helping your competition, so good luck with the ramifications of that, or

B) a person in a Class R guild helping a Class C guild.

In the case of B, I would like to think that 1-2 people in a Class R guild engaging a Class C target would not be viewed as an entire Class R guild engaging a Class C target, but I would assume due to the nature of people on this server, Class C guilds would fight long and hard to make the case that the Class R guild that provided assistance engaged a Class C mob and should then be considered a Class C guild. :P So I wouldn't risk getting your entire Class R guild switched to Class C just to help on a Class C mob.

-

For Class FFA mobs, based on the current revised raid rules, and along the lines of what Cecily stated, the ruling is that "guilds need to work this stuff out themselves", which means if Guild A receives help from Guild B and Guild C that was also competing for the FFA mob has a problem with this (i.e. they make the case that Guild A could not have killed the target without Guild B), they need to work it out with Guild A, and if no resolution can be determined, it could be petitionable. In which case the GM decision would be unfavorable for all (i.e. loot deleted most likely for such a petty petition). So I don't think any guild competing for a FFA target would want to risk outside help.

-

For Class R mobs, I would agree with Cecily... if Class R guilds can just call in Class C help anytime they wanted, there is no dis-incentive to flood the player-made rotation agreement with dozens of incapable guilds that just conveniently call upon Class C guilds (or other Class R guilds, in which case the Class R lockout would apply to both guilds from the quote above) for help. Your Class R guild can either make a reasonable attempt to take down the target or it can't, in which case it needs to defer to the next Class R guild up in the rotation or however the player made agreement works.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was never specifically addressed by staff when asked:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=36

The only guidance near what is being asked was posted here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=10

"As a 'heads-up' for all the Class R guilds out there, if two guilds engage and kill a Class R target, a lockout on that mob will apply to both guilds. If you don't want the lockout to apply to your guild, don't get someone on the hate list for that target while it's being killed by another guild."

So, to extrapolate based on what we know...

-

For Class C mobs, there are only two raid forces present willing to play in that arena, so you'd be either:

A) a person in a Class C guild directly helping your competition, so good luck with the ramifications of that, or

B) a person in a Class R guild helping a Class C guild.

In the case of B, I would like to think that 1-2 people in a Class R guild engaging a Class C target would not be viewed as an entire Class R guild engaging a Class C target, but I would assume due to the nature of people on this server, Class C guilds would fight long and hard to make the case that the Class R guild that provided assistance engaged a Class C mob and should then be considered a Class C guild. :P So I wouldn't risk getting your entire Class R guild switched to Class C just to help on a Class C mob.

-

For Class FFA mobs, based on the current revised raid rules, and along the lines of what Cecily stated, the ruling is that "guilds need to work this stuff out themselves", which means if Guild A receives help from Guild B and Guild C that was also competing for the FFA mob has a problem with this (i.e. they make the case that Guild A could not have killed the target without Guild B), they need to work it out with Guild A, and if no resolution can be determined, it could be petitionable. In which case the GM decision would be unfavorable for all (i.e. loot deleted most likely for such a petty petition). So I don't think any guild competing for a FFA target would want to risk outside help.

-

For Class R mobs, I would agree with Cecily... if Class R guilds can just call in Class C help anytime they wanted, there is no dis-incentive to flood the player-made rotation agreement with dozens of incapable guilds that just conveniently call upon Class C guilds (or other Class R guilds, in which case the Class R lockout would apply to both guilds from the quote above) for help. Your Class R guild can either make a reasonable attempt to take down the target or it can't, in which case it needs to defer to the next Class R guild up in the rotation or however the player made agreement works.

Jesus Christ.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus Christ.

Just trying to answer the question, bro.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just trying to answer the question, bro.

What hath god wrought.

[zanderklocke]

I cannot post in the raid discussion section, but I think some sort of agreement should be set among class R guilds on what it means if one guild helps another with their kill. 4 A-Team members helped Indignation with their Faydedar kill last night; A-Team did not take any loot. However, some class R guilds have requested that A-Team go to the bottom of the list with Indignation in terms of the rotation.

Personally, I think that seems a bit strict that helping another guild could essentially hurt your own in class R, but it would probably be good for an agreement to be set among these types of issues. Can a class R guild help another class R guild for no loot and maintain their rotation spot, assuming they aren't one of the next two up due to the 2-week lock?

[Lune]

Some day I'm going to hire a lawyer and pay him to post on these forums on my behalf

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I cannot post in the raid discussion section, but I think some sort of agreement should be set among class R guilds on what it means if one guild helps another with their kill. 4 A-Team members helped Indignation with their Faydedar kill last night; A-Team did not take any loot. However, some class R guilds have requested that A-Team go to the bottom of the list with Indignation in terms of the rotation.

Personally, I think that seems a bit strict that helping another guild could essentially hurt your own in class R, but it would probably be good for an agreement to be set among these types of issues. Can a class R guild help another class R guild for no loot and maintain their rotation spot, assuming they aren't one of the next two up due to the 2-week lock?

it has nothing to do with class R requesting it, go look at the lockout sheet, A-Team and Indignation are on full lockout. You assist and you get locked out, period.