Rangers in Velious?

[VincentVolaju]

I was wondering if anyone knew if Rangers get any love in Velious, aside from the spells listed on the wiki site? Ive heard other classes get really nice buffs, but havent heard much about Rangers?

[Danth]

The Ranger, Shadow Knight, and Paladin all see significant improvements during the Velious era. Most of these improvements didn't happen until a few months into the expansion. What I recall for Rangers:

Disciplines
Offense cap and damage tables made the same as a Warrior's
New spells
Removal of hybrid experience penalty
Improved itemization

I'm probably forgetting some, but those are the major items to look forward to.

Danth

[VincentVolaju]

Awesome thanks for that! More dmg to look forward to if I roll a Ranger then!

[Danth]

Oh yeah, I also forgot hybrid spell casting haste. That helps some as well.

Danth

[Byrjun]

They get one of the coolest looking weapons in the game, from Vulak. Unique graphic.

That counts for something, right?

[rafaone]

The ability to SOLO fear kite animals properly is also a great upgrade.

[fadetree]

Yah, Rangering gets significantly better in Velious. we are not going to see the archery upgrades that were the single biggest game changer for us, but still weaponshield, panic animal, and the removal of the killer exp penalty are pretty good deals. In fact, I more or less parked myself at a good level for Velious to wait for it.

[Dezik]

Must say I'm surprised at the responses in this thread. With the racism against rangers on this server I thought they would be hated forever. May consider making my alt a ranger.

[fadetree]

Don't get your hopes up. Things will get better, but you will always be the brunt of jokes and discrimination from some. It does provide a good way to tell the tards from the decent folk, though.

[Duckforceone]

yeah rangers will always be the butt of the jokes...

but who cares, some of the best players i have met were rangers... it just takes awesome people to stand out from such a bad class... :D

cleric got aggro, and suddenly ranger went down like a wet paper bag... but party didn't wipe... let's diss the ranger for being so thin skinned... that's your life...

but if you go out, be the one who starts groups, keeps the pulls coming in, and saving the party, who cares what people say, when you know you are awesome... :D

[Noselacri]

People who tell you rangers become great are lying. They get a few things that make them a somewhat viable class, which it frankly isn't until then, but it's still the worst class in the game until the Luclin/PoP era. What rangers gain in Velious amounts pretty much to a spell that lets you level solo, and a discipline that makes it not completely idiotic to bring a ranger to raids. The class will still be the worst in all the categories in which it has a foot in the door -- the worst tank of all the taunt classes, the worst heals of all classes that get healing spells, the worst DPS of the classes that can be qualified as actual DPS classes, the worst buffs, the worst nukes/dots. The worst in the game at everything you can do (except tracking and archery, wahey!), and to make matters worse, the most overplayed class in the game happens to have better versions of every spell you have. Then some simpletons will tell you that every class is fine and player skill can magically eliminate all of the aforementioned disadvantages, but the fact remains that the ranger class is by far the most underpowered in the history of MMORPGs. Play ranger if you can live with those shortcomings, not because you think they can be avoided through sheer love of your class or some bullshit.

[VincentVolaju]

How well does the Rangers snap aggro Flame Lick spell, compared to SKs snap aggro Disease Cloud?

[melkezidek]

Flame Lick owns Disease Cloud

[renegadeofunk]

I was checking out the ranger spell list and all of the grayed out spells look pretty good actually. Are not all of those Velious? I see weapon enchantment procs (stun+damage and fire damage), new aggro reducer, self only ATK buff, ranger-only group ATK buff, ranger-only targetable ATK and HP buff with some sort of spell blocking thing(?), self-only AC and DS buff, and the aforementioned panic animal. Add in the penalty removal and weaponshield for emergencies/raiding and things really don't look too bad.

[Vadd]

My Ranger is 26 now.

I think he solo's pretty well with his bow.

MOST importantly, he is very fun to play.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Rangers ARE fun to play, due to their versatility.

The min-maxers on the servers just aren't really keen on inviting them to groups because they aren't specialists. We are more useful in 3-4 man groups where you maybe have a tank and a healer, and need someone to handle pulling (particularly outdoors), DPS, crowd control (rootparking), slowing (Swarmcaller/Earthcaller), utility buffs, etc. But even then, you can just replace with a bard and add mana regen to the group. :)

As mentioned before, the removal of the hybrid XP penalty and addition of Panic Animal helps get you opportunities to XP. A few ATK buffs and weaponshield disc make you more useful at raids. It's certainly a step in the right direction, but not as much as the archery AA's and some elemental bows would provide beyond Velious.

[Ephirith]

I wanted to play a monk, but it was just too god damned boring.

Rangers can forage vegetables and hold two weapons.

*edit* just realized iksar monks can do both those things

[VincentVolaju]

Yeah I decided to go against Rogue and do a Ranger instead because I figured Id get too bored of a rogue, just auto attacking and spamming backstab/hide macro. Im thinking ranger will be much more fun cause I can do a little of everything. A little tanking when pulls go wrong, a little CC for root/snares to help out in bad moments, some decent DPS with DWing / Dbl attack etc., plus Ill get SoW eventually and some other useful buffs. I think itll be pretty fun.

My main trio group setup is going to be War / Cleric / Ranger... so I am guessing Ill be tanking for the first 30-35 levels, until the Warrior gets some decent proc weapons and starts pulling aggro. Then when he does switch to becoming the main tank, Ill be able to help him out with rooting mobs for him etc. I think itll work out nice.

[Danth]

How well does the Rangers snap aggro Flame Lick spell, compared to SKs snap aggro Disease Cloud?

Better, but Disease Cloud isn't the highest aggro spell a Shadow Knight gets.

Rangers don't become overpowered in Velious, but they do become decent. The removal of the hybrid experience penalty will make them more accepted in groups almost by itself. As always the Ranger remains extremely enjoyable in the mechanical sense--I'd always considered it one of the most fun classes to actually play, class balancing issues notwithstanding.

Rangers, geared properly, make decent tanks up to about 45-50 or so. At 50+ their lower skill caps and inferior mitigation becomes a serious liability.

Danth

[Zapatos]

When you're in velious and your raid's spot healers are calling LoM partially into a 300k hp fight from the massive AE damage all the melee are taking, you can step right out of range and comfortably shoot with your bow until heals catch up. Sure you don't have AA's and it's not as good as hack and slash, but live dps>dead dps.

Direct your attention to the Ventani the Warder encounter if you still think rangers will be useless :)

[webrunner5]

People who tell you rangers become great are lying. They get a few things that make them a somewhat viable class, which it frankly isn't until then, but it's still the worst class in the game until the Luclin/PoP era. What rangers gain in Velious amounts pretty much to a spell that lets you level solo, and a discipline that makes it not completely idiotic to bring a ranger to raids. The class will still be the worst in all the categories in which it has a foot in the door -- the worst tank of all the taunt classes, the worst heals of all classes that get healing spells, the worst DPS of the classes that can be qualified as actual DPS classes, the worst buffs, the worst nukes/dots. The worst in the game at everything you can do (except tracking and archery, wahey!), and to make matters worse, the most overplayed class in the game happens to have better versions of every spell you have. Then some simpletons will tell you that every class is fine and player skill can magically eliminate all of the aforementioned disadvantages, but the fact remains that the ranger class is by far the most underpowered in the history of MMORPGs. Play ranger if you can live with those shortcomings, not because you think they can be avoided through sheer love of your class or some bullshit.

What he said. Very smart person. And I have a Ranger. :eek::eek: In this game they suck ass plain and simple. If you have the plat for a Fungi and a CoF well maybe till level 50. They make great pullers with Harmony in outdoor zones. But they are a Paper Tank. They just are not made to get hit. They are the same as a Rogue or a Bard tanking. God help us. I knew there was a reason I didn't really want to be a Cleric lol.

[Captain Faceplant]

I'm late to this thread so maybe this has been answered. But do rangers become good DPS in Velious? My only experience with them as DPS is Luclin+, when they really became a DPS class because of AAs, etc. (And I so loved "accidentally" standing in front of them at raids).

[fadetree]

What do you mean by good? If you mean any DPS=good, well then sure. If you mean hugely better than any other melee class, then no. Well ok, you can out-dps plate classes on a pretty regular basis, but monks & rogues will usually blow you away.

[maverixdamighty]

most dps will want call of the predator ( i think that was the name) and tanks want the paladin hp buff in velious.

[webrunner5]

All the TRUE tanks really don't do that much DPS. They are there to hold agro and get beat on. Pretty much your job.

[Deverell]

Warriors can do pretty decent DPS if they don't have to tank.

[Elmarnieh]

The defense cap issue only really pertains to mobs of levels greater to 51, lower than that rangers that focus on ac can tank mobs lower than the rangers level well. The majority of my time in Karnors 51-56 was spent in the roll of tank. Druids could heal me, shaman could heal me, clerics were bored of healing me.

I sometimes tank in sebilis though the defense cap issue is much more clearly revealed in sebilis and I try not to tank even cons or greater.

In groups we are very useful unless the group has a perfect balance, even then one LD tank and who is tanking, the cleric, the enchanter, or the rogue? Enchanter dies or LD, flame lick aggro and root park 3 mobs, then tank them down one by one.

In raids the tanks are defined and rangers become dps with utility. Moving to next target the ranger can toss a regen on their necro and patch heal people up to save the cleric's time, mana, and concentration.

You can build a "perfect" group warrior ench cleric rogue rogue rogue but it has very little flexibility if one of the trinity drops, and thats if you can find all of those available. In the real world xp and farming groups are usually made up of what is available and in those situations rangers are a great addition that provides a lot of flexibility to resist changing circumstances.

[Malone88]

People who tell you rangers become great are lying. They get a few things that make them a somewhat viable class, which it frankly isn't until then, but it's still the worst class in the game until the Luclin/PoP era. What rangers gain in Velious amounts pretty much to a spell that lets you level solo, and a discipline that makes it not completely idiotic to bring a ranger to raids. The class will still be the worst in all the categories in which it has a foot in the door -- the worst tank of all the taunt classes, the worst heals of all classes that get healing spells, the worst DPS of the classes that can be qualified as actual DPS classes, the worst buffs, the worst nukes/dots. The worst in the game at everything you can do (except tracking and archery, wahey!), and to make matters worse, the most overplayed class in the game happens to have better versions of every spell you have. Then some simpletons will tell you that every class is fine and player skill can magically eliminate all of the aforementioned disadvantages, but the fact remains that the ranger class is by far the most underpowered in the history of MMORPGs. Play ranger if you can live with those shortcomings, not because you think they can be avoided through sheer love of your class or some bullshit.
Being the "worst of" is pretty much the same story for all hybrids (ranger/paladin/SK/bard) isn't it? Isn't that what's called utility? Let's consider
that most pure melee (Warrior/Monk/Rogue) have like 0 in most of those areas,
so maybe rangers aren't "the worst". I think playing a pure melee would bore
me to tears, so please give me the 'most underpowered in the history of MMORPGs' class...

Was nice that griefers like you had to eat some serious crow when PoP + Archery AAs came out. Rangers became THE BEST class to play and one of the MOST powerful!

I salute any Ranger on 'live' who stuck it out that long and got richly rewarded for years of grief...

[Duckforceone]

oh they became quite good..

but we aren't going to get those abilities here that fixes it.. :D

[ArumTP]

Being the "worst of" is pretty much the same story for all hybrids (ranger/paladin/SK/bard) isn't it? Isn't that what's called utility? Let's consider
that most pure melee (Warrior/Monk/Rogue) have like 0 in most of those areas,
so maybe rangers aren't "the worst". I think playing a pure melee would bore
me to tears, so please give me the 'most underpowered in the history of MMORPGs' class...

Was nice that griefers like you had to eat some serious crow when PoP + Archery AAs came out. Rangers became THE BEST class to play and one of the MOST powerful!

I salute any Ranger on 'live' who stuck it out that long and got richly rewarded for years of grief...

Stop being emotionally involved by "your" class. Rangers never get good in the era of this server, PoP and archery AAs aren't even relevant to this discussion.

Paladins/Shadow-knight are non-ideal tanks, but fulfill the tank role in everything but raid content. They get a pass in groups because we will deal with the penalty due to a lack of tanks at times. Without the tank there just can't be a group.

Bards get a pass because they can iffy fulfill the slot of an enchanter. They are also a good 5th-6th slot due to the many things they can bring to a group. They are highly desirable on raids.

RANGERS DON'T GET A PASS
They are just DPS. Monk>Rogue>Warrior>RANGER. For every 1 ranger I can find maybe 3-4 monks, 3-4 warriors, and 2-3 rogues on any given day. There is no reason to shoulder the burden of a poorly designed class when better replacements can be found in abundance.

[Malone88]

Stop being emotionally involved by "your" class. Rangers never get good in the era of this server, PoP and archery AAs aren't even relevant to this discussion.

Paladins/Shadow-knight are non-ideal tanks, but fulfill the tank role in everything but raid content. They get a pass in groups because we will deal with the penalty due to a lack of tanks at times. Without the tank there just can't be a group.

Bards get a pass because they can iffy fulfill the slot of an enchanter. They are also a good 5th-6th slot due to the many things they can bring to a group. They are highly desirable on raids.

RANGERS DON'T GET A PASS
They are just DPS. Monk>Rogue>Warrior>RANGER. For every 1 ranger I can find maybe 3-4 monks, 3-4 warriors, and 2-3 rogues on any given day. There is no reason to shoulder the burden of a poorly designed class when better replacements can be found in abundance.

"Rangers are just DPS" sums it up right there. Kinda similar to "Rangers suck cause they can't tank."

Lets see your 3 warriors/3 monks/3 rogues save your group's a$$ when:

1) Unsnared mob grabs his buddies and pulls to your group.
2) FD-broken monk brings adds that aggro your casters..
3) Warrior can't hold mob's attention after heal aggro...healer dead, group wipe.

Sorry, but no warrior/monk/rogue can help you in any of these situations.

[Ephirith]

Paladins/Shadow-knight are non-ideal tanks, but fulfill the tank role in everything but raid content. They get a pass in groups because we will deal with the penalty due to a lack of tanks at times. Without the tank there just can't be a group.

Interesting you forget to mention monks, probably the most common melee, make excellent tanks in most content and have the ability to hold agro adequately. Knights get a pass because of ignorance, nothing more.

RANGERS DON'T GET A PASS
They are just DPS. Monk>Rogue>Warrior>RANGER. For every 1 ranger I can find maybe 3-4 monks, 3-4 warriors, and 2-3 rogues on any given day. There is no reason to shoulder the burden of a poorly designed class when better replacements can be found in abundance.

Monks suck balls at pulling outdoors compared to a ranger. Snare is handy if you lack other snares. Foraging is nice for finding berries. And you're not sacrificing that much dps.

Otherwise, pretty accurate.

Monks, rogues, and warriors are all boring as shit imo

[Vadd]

Monks, rogues, and warriors are all boring as shit imo

My main is a Warrior.... so I don't play Knights.

My Monk alt got boring...

Playing my 27 Ranger and bow kiting the lowbie guards stationed at the inn's in EC is a pleasant experience every time....

Rogues MAY do more DPS?

But Rangers get a hat full of tricks, that's what makes it a fun class for me.

P.S. I'm fairly certain there's 1-2 60 Rangers with legit tanking abilities.....

[Vadd]

but you will always be the brunt of jokes and discrimination from some.

Haha makes me think of "Ranger Gate...."

I remember back in '99 lots of players were under the impression that Ranger was a tanking class...

[Pscottdai]

A Ranger walks into a bar ... "LOADING PLEASE WAIT"

[Jaxsz]

A Ranger walks into a bar ... "LOADING PLEASE WAIT"

Well yeah, it has to load the zone with the bar.

What next?!

[webrunner5]

Malone88 you can talk to you are blue in the face. No one wants a Ranger or a Wizard in a group if there is anyone else LFG. And even if not they will stay with 5 people in it on average. You are fighting a loosing battle on here that you will never win. They suck ass. My Druid can pull and CC as good or better than a Ranger. And do a Ton more things. Why have one. Druids DD are no slouch either or Dots. With CII I can nuke some pretty good damage and keep it up.

[SupaflyIRL]

"Rangers are just DPS" sums it up right there. Kinda similar to "Rangers suck cause they can't tank."

Lets see your 3 warriors/3 monks/3 rogues save your group's a$$ when:

1) Unsnared mob grabs his buddies and pulls to your group.
2) FD-broken monk brings adds that aggro your casters..
3) Warrior can't hold mob's attention after heal aggro...healer dead, group wipe.

Sorry, but no warrior/monk/rogue can help you in any of these situations.

yes because it's hard to

1) cast one spell on each mob or have four classes in group that can root cc
2) not run straight into camp with 10 mobs on you
3) lol

[Norathorr]

I think in terms of pure number crunching Rangers lose out to monks and Rogues. Rangers can offer a lot of utility in a group though, whilst being decent enough dps. For a pure grinding situation probably not so good, but in more hectic situations, the snare, root , cures and patch heals could be very helpful. My friend was a ranger back on live and I was a paladin. I think both those classes although unusual could really shine if played creatively. I guess as a ranger if you are trying to be pure dps, you will always lose out to rogues.

[SupaflyIRL]

ranger is good for:

death touch
eating xp
harmony
?

[Norathorr]

I do however think life became easier as a hybrid with luclin and pop even more so. There was a point where warriors were unwanted in pop groups as mobs hit so hard having bad snap aggro was akin to wiping a group.

[Mickets]

One of the coolest looking epics at least. Double god damn lightning swords? Sign me the fuck up.

[Bardalicious]

Know why rangers never got feign death?

'Cuz the fall to the ground would kill 'em.

[Elmarnieh]

We don't need feign cause we got the real thing!

[VincentVolaju]

I am loving the Ranger so far, been tanking everything fine. However I am 21, and even/yellow shit seems to be beating my ass now lol.

[Tiggles]

When you're in velious and your raid's spot healers are calling LoM partially into a 300k hp fight from the massive AE damage all the melee are taking, you can step right out of range and comfortably shoot with your bow until heals catch up. Sure you don't have AA's and it's not as good as hack and slash, but live dps>dead dps.

Direct your attention to the Ventani the Warder encounter if you still think rangers will be useless :)

In all seriousness during a velious fight where healers are having mana problems no cleric would heal a ranger what so ever.

You will put some news buffs on people you will track mobs and you will use weaponshield to position mobs for other classes then die.

After that you could log off because you won't make a difference.

[mimixownzall]

"Rangers are just DPS" sums it up right there. Kinda similar to "Rangers suck cause they can't tank."

Lets see your 3 warriors/3 monks/3 rogues save your group's a$$ when:

1) Unsnared mob grabs his buddies and pulls to your group.
2) FD-broken monk brings adds that aggro your casters..
3) Warrior can't hold mob's attention after heal aggro...healer dead, group wipe.

Sorry, but no warrior/monk/rogue can help you in any of these situations.

Yeah, that's why every group I'm in people always say, "Well there is a warrior, monk and rogue LFG, but I'm gonna hold out for a ranger to replace me, guys."

[webrunner5]

Yeah, that's why every group I'm in people always say, "Well there is a warrior, monk and rogue LFG, but I'm gonna hold out for a ranger to replace me, guys."

Lol, Classic.

[fadetree]

There is no reason to shoulder the burden of a poorly designed class when better replacements can be found in abundance.

Most of us wouldn't want to group with folks like you either, so it's all good. If absolute efficiency is your only focus when playing, then I don't know why you're here.

And by the way, on live certain rangers were known for saving raids occasionally with weaponshield and snap aggro. Live cleric camped=win. Rangers are not just dps on velious raids, and as had already been mentioned, can make up for a dropped trinity member of a exp group very well. Situationally, they can pull as well or better than anyone else too. Weaponshield was often used on raids to set a mob up for slows and to build transfer aggro for the tank. As was mentioned, patching necro's and shammies removes a burden for already overworked healer classes.

But, it is true that we don't get the really fixing changes that came later, and so if you play a ranger you are going to have to be prepared for a rough road, even after velious.

[Elmarnieh]

Some people play an easy class because it is easy others play a hard class because it is hard.

It seems those that play the hard class don't dismiss the person for choosing to play it easy.

[Malone88]

Malone88 you can talk to you are blue in the face. No one wants a Ranger or a Wizard in a group if there is anyone else LFG. And even if not they will stay with 5 people in it on average. You are fighting a loosing battle on here that you will never win. They suck ass. My Druid can pull and CC as good or better than a Ranger. And do a Ton more things. Why have one. Druids DD are no slouch either or Dots. With CII I can nuke some pretty good damage and keep it up.
Explain to me exactly how a dr00d is a better puller and CC? First of all, they will have lower AC and HP. Lower tracking range. No arrows to pull.
Sorry, but dr00ds are as suck a$$ as rangers. Why have have druid healer when you get a cleric or shaman (heals + slow).
Don't start to tell me that druids have higher sustained DPS than a ranger. Maybe with C2 on them 24/7. Otherwise, a medding druid cannot outdamage a well-equipped ranger who is in the fight from start to finish.

Dr00d troll...go away. Go port somebody...